(In open court)
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura, you can take a moment to review the document and let us know when you're ready.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, there is a 412 issue with this exhibit that we just found.
THE COURT: Give me the page.
MS. JOHNSON: Page 15. And I believe there is an additional --
MS. ESTEVAO: Your Honor, I agree with the government on this one.
THE COURT: Why don't we put this to the side for the moment. Ms. Estevao, you can ask your next question.
MS. ESTEVAO: During your direct testimony, Ms. Ventura, you discussed the instant -- withdrawn. During your direct testimony, you said that Mr. Combs would periodically call you incessantly, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was a frequent feature of your communications with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you didn't pick up the phone when he wanted you to pick up the phone, then he would continue to call you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was especially the case if he suspected that you --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. It's speculation.
THE COURT: I don't know what you were going to ask, but you can rephrase the fragment, and we can see where we are.
MS. ESTEVAO: When do you recall -- withdrawn. What would trigger this incessant calling, from your perspective?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From my perspective, what would it trigger. It could be anything from not telling him where I was, many things, just angry with me about anything.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why did you think he was concerned when he didn't know where you were?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think because he would assume I was cheating, but I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: If he gave you reason to think -- withdrawn. When he suspected that you were cheating, he would call you --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Same objection.
THE COURT: That's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: When he suspected you of cheating he would call you incessantly, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's one of the reasons.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you didn't answer the phone when he called, he would jump to the conclusion that you were cheating on him?
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your Honor, my next series of questions are about exhibits, so if it makes sense to take a break, we can do so.
THE COURT: Just give us one second. Are you prepared to move forward for a few more minutes, just so we can make efficient time?
MS. ESTEVAO: Sure.
THE COURT: Let's keep going, and then we will take a break shortly.
MS. ESTEVAO: During your direct testimony you talked about the ways in which Mr. Combs was consulted on your appearance, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you would periodically text him photos of your clothes, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Mischaracterizes testimony.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you send him photos of your clothes?
CASANDRA VENTURA: What I was wearing, things like that, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And send him photos of your hair?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And ask him what he thought?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sometimes, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And is Mr. Combs generally known as someone who has good taste?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Can you rephrase that question.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you believe that Mr. Combs has good taste?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think he does, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And do you believe that Mr. Combs is known publicly for being --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs is a celebrity known for many things, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What are some of the things that he's known for?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He is known for his music and production and artistry, style.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is he known for his impact on the culture?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup, absolutely.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is he known for his impact on fashion?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: How, to your knowledge, has he had an impact on fashion?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say he has had a big impact on fashion over many decades.
MS. ESTEVAO: In what respect?
CASANDRA VENTURA: People like his style.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did he also found a clothing line?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was that clothing line very successful?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was.
MS. ESTEVAO: What's the name of that clothing line?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sean John.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did that clothing line -- did his involvement, creation of that clothing line earn him any awards, to your knowledge?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Foundation. Hearsay.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I believe he did, but I don't --
MS. ESTEVAO: And you consulted with him periodically on your own look, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, sometimes I got information without asking for it as well, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But in many ways you trusted his perspective, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And to your understanding, many people respected his perspective in this regard.
CASANDRA VENTURA: From my perspective, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge, did other people consult with him on their look?
CASANDRA VENTURA: If he had the time for them, yes, um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did other artists on his label consult with him on their looks?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was he consulted on various aspects of marketing and production for the label?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'd say so, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: What other professional roles did Mr. Combs play?
CASANDRA VENTURA: An actor, company owner.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you say he was a very busy man during the course of your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup. He's very busy.
MS. ESTEVAO: He had lots of meetings?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Meetings?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he met with lots of advisers?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: He met with managers and accountants and lawyers?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was very busy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Very busy.
MS. ESTEVAO: He ran multiple companies.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Successfully.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was very wealthy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe he was wealthy, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he continued to be very wealthy and very successful and very busy during the course of your relationship when you were having freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you were having freakoffs, he was also consuming lots of substances, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. We both were.
MS. ESTEVAO: At least as much as you were.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And likely more.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he would also have to take time to recover from those freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Sometimes the recovery would take some time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And sometimes you got IV drips to help recover?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And during this time he was still running all of his companies, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And still attending board meetings, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And still traveling all over the country and the world, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And would you say that he was a high-functioning addict -- withdrawn. You would say he was an addict, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say he was an addict.
MS. ESTEVAO: What was he addicted to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Success.
MS. ESTEVAO: What substances was he addicted to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think it varied over the years. It depended on what he was taking. I don't know exactly.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was he addicted to opiates?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At a point, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: How do you know that he was addicted to opiates?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Because he told me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you also see him taking opiates?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had seen him, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You would see him on a regular basis taking opiates, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Often enough. I don't know about regular basis. Depends on when you're talking about in the relationship as well.
MS. ESTEVAO: There were points of your relationship when he was heavily dependent on opiates, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: There were points in your relationship when he was heavily dependent on opiates, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We both were. There were points.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what is it like to withdraw from opiates, from your experience?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From my experience, it's just really painful. I mean, withdrawal of any kind, you just are super sick. You can't really do normal things, like function normally.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say sick, what do you mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: For me, specifically with opiates, when I stopped taking them, I would be nauseous, and I would have like stomach issues. There is various things that can happen.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does it affect your mood or mental state?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Absolutely, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In what way?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think you're more agitated, just really uncomfortable.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever witness Mr. Combs go through opiate withdrawal?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: You witnessed this frequently, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It depends on what's frequently. Definitely more than once.
MS. ESTEVAO: Over the course of your relationship you would witness Mr. Combs attempt to lessen his dependence on opiates, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is it fair to say that his opiate use would go up and down?
CASANDRA VENTURA: You could say that. I don't know specifically what he was taking like day to day, so I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is it fair to say that there were times during your relationship when his drug use was worse than other times?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Foundation. We have not established --
THE COURT: Hold on. That question needs to be rephrased.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did Mr. Combs' mood, from your perspective, depend on whether or not he was withdrawing from opiates?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sorry. Could you reword that.
MS. ESTEVAO: When Mr. Combs was withdrawing from opiates, he was more irritable, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: And more angry.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And more volatile.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know about all those things, but you're definitely irritated when you're coming off of opiates, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: There were times in your relationship when he was more irritated than other times, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He would go through periods of time when he was in a bad mood nearly every day, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It went up and down.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were there certain years in your relationship that were worse than others?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, from your understanding, were the worst years associated in any way with his drug use?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: In what way?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I mean, from my perspective, and in my mind, like drugs don't help you do anything, so he was taking them and not doing well. That's what happens when you take drugs.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said that when he's taking drugs he is not doing well. Is that what you said?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was saying, from my perspective, like my mind, if I'm taking drugs, I'm not doing well, like -- I'm sorry. I am just trying to follow you.
MS. ESTEVAO: My question is confusing.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's OK.
MS. ESTEVAO: When Mr. Combs was using more drugs, was his mood worse?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I can't specify. There was a lot of drug use.
MS. ESTEVAO: There was a lot of drug use. You witnessed a lot of drug use by Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Both participated, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: So to the extent you can remember, you know that he took a lot of drugs at certain points?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At certain points.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were doing drugs as well?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were also addicted to opiates?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was for a period, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What other drugs was Mr. Combs addicted to during your relationship with him?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. We don't know that she knows.
THE COURT: It's objection.
MS. JOHNSON: Yes. Foundation.
THE COURT: No. It's objection, and then I'll inquire as to the grounds. OK. Ms. Estevao, the objection is sustained. The question needs to be rephrased.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you aware of Mr. Combs being addicted to any other drugs?
MS. ESTEVAO: What other drugs did Mr. Combs do in your presence?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Ecstasy, MDMA, cocaine, K, GHP.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is MDMA something that you get addicted to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's a good question. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever get addicted to MDMA?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't feel that I was ever addicted to MDMA, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever feel like you were addicted to molly?
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever feel like you were addicted to cocaine?
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on your experience with Mr. Combs, did you ever understand that he was addicted to cocaine?
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you ever addicted to GHP?
MS. ESTEVAO: From your experience with Mr. Combs, did you ever understand that he was addicted to GHP?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not to my understanding, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on your experience with him and all the drugs that you did, what was his primary drug of choice?
CASANDRA VENTURA: His primary drug of choice, from my perspective, was Ecstasy or MDMA.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's in the context of freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Partying in general.
MS. ESTEVAO: That was a party drug, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And opiates were a daily regular drug, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: For me at least, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And based on your experience with him, for him as well, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When he was doing them, yeah, daily, I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said before that you have witnessed him withdraw from opiates, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And based on those experiences, how did his mood change during the withdrawal?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I haven't thought about it in a while, and I'm not a doctor. Your serotonin levels are definitely messed up after you party and take certain pills. So coming off of them, yeah, you'd be pretty irritated.
MS. ESTEVAO: If Mr. Combs was withdrawing, would that affect how you interacted with him in any way?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sure it did to a point, but I don't -- there was no telling when somebody is actually going through that unless they tell you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, sometimes he told you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sometimes he told me, right.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, you exchanged lots of text messages about withdrawing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the side effects of withdrawal, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that includes feeling sick, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And like flu-like symptoms?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: So in your text messages, if you're talking about flu-like symptoms, it might be that you're discussing withdrawal, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is throwing up or vomiting another symptom of withdrawal?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It could be, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And during your direct testimony you were talking about you used a phrase rolling, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: What does that mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's when the high is really at its peak during taking like MDMA or Ecstasy.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is vomiting a side effect of taking MDMA or Ecstasy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was for me.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you feel when you take Ecstasy or MDMA?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's a feeling of euphoria, you're sensitive to touch, sensitive to sensations.
MS. ESTEVAO: But notwithstanding the side effect of throwing up, you would still take MDMA or Ecstasy to feel that euphoria, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Say it again.
MS. ESTEVAO: You would take Ecstasy to feel that euphoria, notwithstanding the side effect of vomiting, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would take Ecstasy and MDMA to be high during freakoffs.
MS. ESTEVAO: You have taken Ecstasy and MDMA outside of freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We had. It just wasn't my favorite -- it wasn't my drug of choice.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you understand Ecstasy or MDMA to be a drug of choice during sex?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Outside of the context of freakoffs, you've heard about this concept, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's a popular activity while taking Ecstasy, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled. Let's go ahead and take our lunch break now. Members of the jury, we are going to come back at 1 p.m., so see you then. Have a nice lunch.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: See you back here at 1. Again, you are not going to have any discussions with the government.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Gotcha. Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, can you give us a rough sense of where we are in your cross in terms of timing.
MS. ESTEVAO: I have many exhibits to go through. I think I underestimated the estimate yesterday. I think I'm going to confer with the team over the lunch break to try to narrow the exhibits and try to come up with a better estimate.
THE COURT: But just nonresponsive.
MS. ESTEVAO: Guilty.
THE COURT: Mr. Donaldson noted when this came up the last time, I'm not holding you to this, but I need to know what we're looking at so we can have a discussion on scheduling. Let me make it easier for you. Are we talking about you think you're going to be done today, or no, you think you're going to be done in the morning tomorrow?
MR. AGNIFILO: I was told that I would be the one to fall on the sword, which is my role at this trial. I think we're definitely going to finish the week. I think it's going to be all day today, it's going to be all day tomorrow. We're going to do everything we can to finish as soon as possible, but I --
THE COURT: You recognize that that is the exact opposite of what I was told yesterday in this courtroom?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes. That's why there is a sword that I must fall on. So we're up until late into the night and we knew the Court was going to ask this question. There is a lot of material to go through. It's the most important witness in the case. We're trying to do it quickly and we're going to try to do it by the end of the day, we're working two long days, by the end of the day Friday. I definitely want to put the Court on notice and the government on notice, we might not be able to do that, we're going to try to do that.
THE COURT: This was the subject of discussion for I don't even think it's weeks, I think months that this witness needed to be off the stand by the end of the week. So what happened?
MR. AGNIFILO: I never understood that. I understood --
THE COURT: Am I wrong about that?
MS. JOHNSON: No, your Honor. We've been very clear for months about the timing concerns, and we were assured yesterday that this cross would be finished by tomorrow at some point. Our direct took less than two days, probably a day and a half, and we would ask that the Court exercise its discretion under Rule 611 to limit the cross-examination to the length of the direct examination.
THE COURT: For present purposes, we don't need to get into this because we have limited time, we're coming back at 1:00, and everyone needs to do what they need to do. A few things right now. The exhibits you plan to go through, is there a way to provide them to Ms. Ventura so she can look at them?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
THE COURT: For those that aren't going to be objected to, I want to avoid having that time being wasted in front of the jury. If there's a way to do that, let's do that. That's one thing we could do. The second thing is an observation that if there's no objection to the exhibits coming in, if they're authentic and there's no substantive issue to raise and those go into evidence, the questioning, there may be the ability to question the witness and get all the answers that you're looking for without going message by message through these exhibits. That's another way to streamline things because you have a witness that is here and answering questions. And so I'm just making a suggestion. You can do the cross how you plan to do it. I'm not trying to tell you how to do it. I'm just offering that as an observation given the timing concern that we have, that way you have the exhibits in that you need to get in and can ask the questions that you want to ask and maybe there's a way to streamline things. So as I always say, if there's a way to streamline things over the lunch break and over the evening, I would invite you to do that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, Judge, we will do that. One thing I want to point out is the government chose to call two witnesses before this witness, which took up a great deal of time. So I don't know that this artificial deadline of the end of the day Friday should be held against us when it's the third witness in the case. We all knew she was going to be early, but they chose not to call her first. That wasn't our choice. So we are going to do everything we can, but it's a critically important witness.
THE COURT: I appreciate that. And so my suggestion is that it's always good to streamline things. It helps you, it helps the trial move forward swiftly. So that's just the suggestion that I had. If there's a way to do it, if you have some ideas on how to streamline things, great. As to the scheduling issue, I'm going to think about it over the lunch break and we'll figure out what's going to happen. Ms. Comey.
MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor, if I may respond to what Mr. Agnifilo said. As he knows and as we told defense counsel, the first two witnesses had scheduling issues and were not going to be available to testify otherwise. That is why we tried to streamline their directs and why Ms. Johnson was incredibly efficient in getting the direct done in less than two days.
THE COURT: I understand all of that. So we'll come back at 1:00.
(Luncheon recess)
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AFTERNOON SESSION 1:10 p.m.
(In open court; jury not present)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, has the witness had a chance to review the exhibits?
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe government counsel gave them an iPad.
MR. AGNIFILO: We believe she's somewhere reviewing the exhibits right now. Everything that we are going to be asking we told the government about, and I believe the government told the witness and provided the information.
MS. JOHNSON: We did, your Honor, we provided her with an iPad. I know there's a fair number of exhibits, many of which are lengthy, and the government tried to review them at the same time and got through about a third.
THE COURT: We'll do the best we can with our limited time. In terms of the timing of the cross-examination, when we were here yesterday, there was a discussion of whether the cross-examination would begin yesterday or instead would begin in the morning today. In the context of that ask, from the defense, I was told that, absolutely, this witness would be off the stand by the end of the week. On that understanding, we let the jury go home early yesterday and started the cross-examination this morning.
(Witness present)
THE COURT: Further, it is the understanding of everyone -- I did not ask to bring the witness back.
MS. COMEY: I'm sorry, your Honor. I misunderstood.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: To continue. It was the understanding of everyone that this witness would be off the stand by the end of the week. As the prosecution has noted, the direct took a day and a half, so the defense will have a day and a half. So you have today, you have the morning tomorrow. If there's something that really needs to be done after the lunch break, then you can have some additional time at my discretion in the early afternoon so that we can have redirect done tomorrow and the witness off the stand tomorrow. In terms of how to do that, I gave some suggestions before we recessed for lunch, and the only additional thing that I'll say is you have a witness who, Ms. Estevao, is being responsive to your questions, the questions you're asking. So I would just consider that in terms of deciding what questions to ask because this is not the kind of witness that is fighting you on every single question that you're asking. And so in that regard, it may be possible for you to streamline your examination while at the same time addressing all of the issues that you need to address. I absolutely understand that there's a lot of material to cover and a lot of exhibits for you to put in. And so I appreciate that. It's just something for to you think about as you're going through your examination. With that, Ms. Comey or Ms. Johnson, anything to add?
MS. JOHNSON: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. Agnifilo, anything on your side?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, your Honor. We are going to do everything we can to be efficient. It is not uncommon for cross-examinations to be three or four hours longer or three or four hours shorter than one estimates. So we saved 30 minutes yesterday when we sent the jury out at 4:30 instead of 5 o'clock, and I think that that time was well spent. There's nothing other than our trying to do this as quickly as possible that imposes a Friday 5:00 p.m. deadline. To my knowledge, nothing happens if the witness has to come back Monday morning, and that is common. If this was such a hard deadline, this should have been the first witness. Again, that was the government's decision. Now, it's starting to feel a little strategic on their part to kind of pen us in to only having a day and a half or two days on cross. And so if this was that important, if this was a drop-dead deadline, it should have been the first witness.
THE COURT: In what universe did you not understand that this was important given that it was in numerous filings and discussed among the parties several times, that this was what was going to happen, that this witness was going to be done this week. You're not telling me that it wasn't everyone's understanding and expectation that this witness would be done this week, right? You're not saying that to me?
MR. AGNIFILO: We are trying to accomplish, we are trying to do that.
THE COURT: I understand. You never mentioned to anyone before today, when we addressed it before the lunch break, that there was a possibility that this witness would go into next week, right?
MR. AGNIFILO: But that is the cross-examination that might be required for this critical witness in a case that involves a life sentence. And so what's really important, yes, the schedule is important, Mr. Combs's right to cross examine this witness fully and fairly is quite important and I don't know that the two have to be in such great tension.
THE COURT: I've told you what my expectation is, and I did say if we are getting into tomorrow and there's a real need for additional time, then I understand that you'll make an application at that time to do it. You have no objection to the government making inquiries on a logistical basis with the witness to determine whether she's even available next week?
MR. AGNIFILO: That's perfectly appropriate.
THE COURT: Let's figure that out. For the time being, my expectation, and there will need to be good cause for me to not follow what I'm saying now, is that you have a day and a half, we should be done by the lunch break or soon thereafter, and then we'll go into redirect. So there has to be a compelling reason not to do that. And I agree with the government that under Rule 611, I have the authority to do that. And so if I see that you are making efficient use of time in your cross-examination, that we're doing things in a streamlined way, and that there is just reasons outside of your control, material that is relevant to the defense and that is grounds for additional time, then hopefully we'll hear back that, logistically, it should not pose an issue and we'll continue on that basis.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: Now, if we can please get Ms. Ventura back.
(Witness present)
(Continued on next page)
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura, you understand you're still under oath?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Good afternoon, Ms. Ventura. I would like to turn to some government exhibits that are already in evidence. Mr. McLeod, could you pull up Government Exhibit 411, please. Excuse me, B-411.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I don't believe that's in evidence yet. According to our records, it's not in evidence.
THE COURT: What was put up was A-411. So I think now we're getting up B-411.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please pull up B-442.
BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, these are your messages to Mr. Combs on March 18th, 2017, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, please don't play victim, if you can, go to our last messages. And then you say, that's all you wanted and that's why I was upset, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: After that, you say I love our FOs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you say, when we both want it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's how you felt at the time, that you loved freak-offs when you both were into it, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say that loving FOs were just words at that point.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, those were words that you said to Mr. Combs, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Those are texts, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Those are texts Mr. Combs received from you, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could you please pull up B-415, Mr. McLeod, and scroll down.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this text message, Mr. Combs says to you, I want a freak-off right now lol. And how do you respond?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Lol me too. Well, I want to have fun with you.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's you telling Mr. Combs that you also want to freak-off right now, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That is me agreeing to it in the first message, and the second one is me establishing that I want to have fun with him.
MS. ESTEVAO: The text message that you sent to Mr. Combs was, lol, me too, well, I want to have fun with you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's the message that he received from you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please pull up B-418 in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this text message, Mr. Combs says to you, let me know if you want to have a light night, Jules is avail FYI. If you not into that, NP. And that means no problem, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can just do our thing, me and you. Just want to know for hotel purposes. And then he says, love you. And in response, you say, love you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: So that's him asking you if would you like to have a freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He says let me know if you want to have a light night, which, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: By saying Jules is available, that suggests to you that he wants to have a freak-off, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, if you're not into that, no problem?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was an invitation for you to respond yes or no, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I suppose so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the response that you gave was, love you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right. There was no yes or no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could we please go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, you didn't give me an answer. In response, you say, I love you Pop Pop. And he said, love you, Mama.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. Is this connected to the last page, too --
MS. ESTEVAO: -- the following page.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please, the next message. You can take it down, please. Can you please bring up B-420 on page 2.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this message, Mr. Combs writes to you, I want us to have one of our night. I found this new store. Dope. We'll drink a lot of water. Don't overdo, but have us some freaky fun. Do I have your permission to set up. You say, yeah, but I'm ovulation. That's you responding yes to his request to have freaky fun, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you say that you're on ovulation, which, does that mean you were ovulating, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're correcting your statement saying, ugh, ovulating. That's good, we'd be extra careful with anything else, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And so in that message he's saying to you that he's planning to be careful. What do you interpret that to mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From getting me pregnant, I'm assuming.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs is asking, if you're not super horny, wtf. What do you say in response to that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Horny, of course I am.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. You can take this down. Could we pull up B-427, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this text membership exchange, Mr. Combs says, how you, and you say, okay, how are you. And he says, baby call me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you ask?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I say, which hotel, what was their time. I must have called him, yeah, ahead of that.
MS. ESTEVAO: The text messages don't indicate calls, but would you assume from this message that there would be a call in between these messages?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't want to assume anything at this point, but I would think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that an inference that you're drawing from this message?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says Montage. And you ask, Hustler is a little unblessed, no?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, I don't mind, about to get in my car now, just asking what you think. I can also go to Pleasure Chest. This is you discussing an anticipated freak-off and planning to go to Pleasure Chest, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What would you get at Pleasure Chest?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would get different sexual supplies, lubricants, outfits.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, that's so far. And you say, okay. And he says, I'll go if you don't want, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's suggesting he go to pick up supplies, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, in fact, there were many occasions in which he was picking up supplies for the freak-offs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He picked up supplies, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You weren't the only one picking up supplies?
MS. ESTEVAO: And there were also occasions in which he was the one contacting escorts, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: You weren't the only one contacting escorts?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: In response, you say, no problem, no, it's cool, unless you're done. And he says, not done. This is you two just negotiating who's going to pick up supplies for the freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, okay, got it. Anything else you want? You're asking him in this message if there's anything else he wants for the freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
(Continued on next page)
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Have fun. Impress me. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: OK. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: Can we kiss tonight a lot.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's in response to him asking if you can kiss that evening, presumably at the freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, what are you doing? Where are you at?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At Hustler, about to check out. Trying to find something to impress you, LOL U.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: Great. Go to hotel, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say in response to that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: OK. How long you gonna be, you think.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in this exchange so far you have not said no, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says 20, as in 20 minutes, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: You can go set up. And you respond: OK. You still tired. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: No. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: Shit, I left the iPad. Should I go get. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: What IPad are you referring to there?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure which iPad specifically, but probably an iPad that we were going to use that night.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say, I left the iPad, you meant that you had previously had possession of the iPad and had left it wherever you left it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I just don't know whose iPad it was.
MS. ESTEVAO: Putting aside whose it was, you had left it somewhere, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it had been in your possession, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you told him that you left the iPad because you knew that he would want it for the freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was anticipated that the iPad would be used for some sort of reporting for the freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In 2017, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you asked him if you should go get it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, yeah, fuck, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: OK. I'll run there. Sorry. I had it hidden, so I forgot to grab it. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you're referring to the iPad being hidden here, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I am.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this message exchange is from May 26, 2017. Do you see that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at this point you've been together with Mr. Combs for many years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says in response to that: OK. Meet you at the hotel. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: They took forever to check me out because I got a lot of stuff. I'm leaving the store now. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: On way to hotel. And you say: Pulling up to my house. He says: I'll be at hotel waiting. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then he is asking about a pizza. You say: Almost there. I'm good, I think. Maybe a slice. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then you say: I'm too excited.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's referring to the freakoff that you were about to attend, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In my mind, I probably would have been excited to see him and have fun with him.
MS. ESTEVAO: But the words that you texted him were: I'm so excited. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm too excited.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm too excited. Excuse me. And this was after a discussion about negotiating supplies and logistics for a freakoff, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could you please pull up Government Exhibit B428, Mr. McLeod, and go to the last page.
MS. JOHNSON: This is not in evidence yet.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can I just ask that the witness and the parties and the Court look at this exhibit.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, could you review this exhibit, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: If Mr. McLeod can go through. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you ready?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Was it just like the three pages?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is this a conversation between -- a text conversation between you and Mr. Combs, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks as though it is, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: This is Exhibit -- can you give the number.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's government Exhibit 428.
THE COURT: Exhibit B428 will be admitted.
(Government Exhibit B428 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Could we please go to page 5, Mr. McLeod.
MS. ESTEVAO: On this page, Ms. Ventura, you said: I was away all week, partied with you, recovered, and now I'm back. It is what it is. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: What you want to do? You want to see me tonight? What's the road to peace? There's no problem. I'm doing this fasting. I can't deal with no problems. I'm here. What's wrong? I'll be there right after premier before my session. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is in June 2017. You recall the arguments that you were having with Mr. Combs around this time period?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Around this time period, no, not specifically.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can please pull up Government Exhibit B431, which I believe is in evidence. Can we blow up the larger bubble. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this text exchange you say to Mr. Combs: The game starts at 10 p.m. No texting after this. Create a character that you will be that is nothing like who you really are and so will I. Different name. Different occupation. Different style of dress. Different background story. We cannot break character until 8 a.m. When you see me, I am no one you have ever met before. I'm not Cassie and you are not Sean, Puff, Diddy, Mr. C, etc., LOL. Example. Pilot, doctor, author, professor, or whatever you decide. We do not know each other. Then it goes on with this game. What was the purpose of sending this text message, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The purpose of this, from what I remember, is this was a game that a friend of mine told me about and said it's like -- it was a good way to like rekindle your romance.
MS. ESTEVAO: And were you trying to rekindle your romance?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess I was at this time, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: By doing something a little bit different in the bedroom, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. It pertained more to what was happening prior to getting into the bedroom. It's like a whole character setup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Government Exhibit B432 already in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this exhibit Mr. Combs says to you: Same fucking page. Let's get some outfits, shoes, and I am not sure what the next word is. Go to sex club maybe. Is that how you would interpret it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's how I would interpret it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: Maybe a sex club with your wig. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: If we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I say OK.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: We sure about tonight because I'm making plans, so I need to know. No stress. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: Babe.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Didn't hear from you. So I just put some plans in motion. If you are not sure, please let me stop. Surprise package coming from outta state. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in that message he is asking you to tell him stop if you are not sure, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Just let me know if I'm headed in wrong direction so I can cancel. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he asks: Why can't I reach you. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: I told you I was getting my lashes and brows done at 8. I just finished. He's like: Cool. Read and answer my text.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please. You can take that down. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, we mentioned earlier Ms. Porter, right. And did there come a time when you learned that Mr. Combs was leaving a freakoff with you to see Ms. Porter at another hotel room?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure. I mean, maybe there is something could remind me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you jealous of Ms. Porter?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had some jealousy of Ms. Porter, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You understood that Mr. Combs spent his holidays with his family, his children, and Ms. Porter, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Even though you were under the impression that he was no longer romantically with Ms. Porter, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: So when you learned that he was spending time with Ms. Porter, you were upset by that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At what point?
MS. ESTEVAO: For example, were there periods during the holidays when you learned that Mr. Combs was spending time with Ms. Porter?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I always knew that, every holiday.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did that upset you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It did, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a time when you learned about Mr. Combs having relationships with other women?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And do you recall a time in April 2014 when you learned of someone named Gina?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: How did you learn about Gina?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I honestly don't remember exactly how I found out. It might have been like associate media, or something like that.
MS. ESTEVAO: What was your reaction to that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was really upset.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you learn?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That time, 2014, I think I just learned that they were spending time together. I didn't really know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you recall Mr. Combs' response was when you approached him about this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I honestly don't remember, but I feel like he denied it to some extent. Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a time when you learned that Mr. Combs was still with Gina?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact he did not break it off with Gina, as you were led to believe?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did that upset you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At the time, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It did. Were there multiple times when you found out that he was getting back together with Gina?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I would say there were multiple, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that prompted arguments between the two of you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you learned about him spending time with other women, those also prompted arguments with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs also developed suspicions that you were not faithful to him, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what was his reaction like when he developed those suspicions?
CASANDRA VENTURA: About me?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was a little scary, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: The arguments that you had with Mr. Combs about the suspicions that you were cheating, do you remember those clearly?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not super clearly, but I remember them.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are there some fuzzy spots?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There is fuzzy spots.
MS. ESTEVAO: This was a long time ago?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was a long time ago and it sounds like you were doing a lot of drugs at the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the risk of having you read more exhibits, I am going to do it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please show the witness Defense Exhibit 1019.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you already look at this exhibit, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I saw -- I think I saw part of this one. I'm not positive if I saw the whole thing or not.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you want to check first?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. How many pages is this one?
MS. ESTEVAO: Unfortunately, 17 pages.
MS. JOHNSON: We have a paper copy, if it's easier to check that way.
THE COURT: All right.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think I read this one. I just want to make sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that a text exchange between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1019 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1019 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the first page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs asked: What can we do in NYC this weekend? What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Let's do something different.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: I have one idea. Let's see a Broadway play.
MS. ESTEVAO: I think we are going to skip ahead to page 3, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: FYI, fucking Dave hit me. And you respond: LOL. Me too. So did Daniel. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we skip to page 5, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What does hit mean in this context?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Like reached out --
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: -- over the phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs asked: Is coming to NYC this weekend the right move? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He again asks: Is coming to NYC this weekend the right move? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: It's totally up to you and how you feel. It's really nice being here, actually, if you want a change of scenery and weather. If not, I can come home tomorrow. I would just need to know so I can book a new flight. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is after your discussing Dave hitting -- contacting Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Daniel contacted you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you understood that Daniel was New York based, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: So when Mr. Combs is asking about coming to New York City this weekend, after hearing about Dave and Daniel, did you understand that to mean that you might have a freakoff that weekend?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That we might. There was lot like a lot of things going on in this one conversation.
MS. ESTEVAO: He asks: Is coming to NYC this weekend the right move? You say: It's totally up to you and how you feel. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: You make the decision, please. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: What decision? He says: I've been hitting you, meaning contacting you. WTF are you doing that is taking so long for you to hit me back? WTF. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said: I'm at the studio. Wyclef is an A. I played in some stuff, and he wanted me to play a couple of songs. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're busy at the studio, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You tell him that. He's telling you: You better put me on VIP, vibrate, harm, ring, something. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He is acting impatient because you're not responding to him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says again halfway down the page: You make NYC decision. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say -- you're responding to his other questions.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: OK. I think it would be a nice switch up for you to come here. Can you come tomorrow, early, though? Because I have to leave on Monday afternoon. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're telling him to come, understanding that there would be a freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that that's what I understood, but --
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: I miss you, baby. And you say: I miss you so much. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then you're talking about seeing the Book of Mormon, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to page 12, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: I'm horny for that.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You respond with another explicit text message back, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Nice and slow for 30 minutes straight. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you send another explicit message in response, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to page 14, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You sent him a screenshot. What is this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like an email that I received from -- I don't know where it's from. Lifestyle Lounge account.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then you sent it to him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's something called Masspleasures?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does that appear to be a sex club to you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would guess that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: On this page he says he's on his way. You asked: Are you here yet? He said: Daddy's home. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the last page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He sends an explicit message and then says: You ready for tonight? What do you say in response to that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I say yes. I just gotta get stuff.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we show just the witness, the Court, and the parties Defense Exhibit 1021. A. This isn't about how -- like what I feel is relevant at all right now, right? Because there is a lot that we skipped over.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please read the exhibit in front of you and tell me when you're ready.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Which part?
MS. ESTEVAO: It's 19 pages. Have you already looked at this, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I haven't seen this one yet, no.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, may I briefly confer with counsel?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. McLeod, can you pull up 1021, please.
MS. JOHNSON: I have a hard copy for Ms. Ventura, if it's helpful. A. You want me to just read through the whole thing?
MS. ESTEVAO: Just to tell me if it's a conversation between you and Mr. Combs.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: We offer it.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1021 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1021 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the first page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: That bottom message is from you to Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is from October 19, 2012, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: I miss you. An explicit message. And I miss our love sessions in the afternoon. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you're referring to love sessions in the afternoon, you're referring to freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know in this message.
MS. ESTEVAO: You often had freakoffs in the afternoon, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We did, but that doesn't mean that this is -- that means that for this message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to page 10, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the bottom Mr. Combs says: You up? Want to have some freak fun in the afternoon, Smiley face.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: Are you horny or sleepy? We can sleep or make love today. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say in response to that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm both. LOL. I thought we were going to lay up and spend time, but you wanna just come here so we can talk about in person. I was thinking I wasn't going to see you until tomorrow. I had stuff planned for the day, but I'm good to cancel. Either way.
MS. ESTEVAO: What does he say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. Cool. Will do tomorrow. I just called kids, so imma get them at 2 p.m. All good. Coming to see you now.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up for the witness, the parties, and the Court Defense Exhibit 1035.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, are you asking --
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that a conversation between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like it, but I don't remember this at all.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this resemble the other conversations we have looked at?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it appears to be a fair and accurate depiction of your conversation with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1035 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1035 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the second page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your bubbles to Mr. Combs, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: OK. I am just going to go lay by the pool for some sun if it's cool. Wish we could have FOd before you left. My period is over. Sad face.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we back up to the previous page.
MS. ESTEVAO: On that page Mr. Combs is not initiating the freakoff conversation, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, not in that one.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to page 4, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your message at the bottom.
CASANDRA VENTURA: The large message?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: As much as you think you're Bruce Willis, you aren't. He's married and before he was married. The family as a whole went on trips together, or just with him and his woman. Eddie Murphy and Paige took his kids away on their own. He didn't go with his ex because that's not who he's in love with. I've been at the edge of tears this whole week. I don't think that you sympathize with my feelings. I understand you feeling like you need to protect your children, but after a while, for what? It's like for what? They've never known you and Kim to be together, unless there's something that I just don't know about. They were babies when we started dating. If Chance can go away with her dad and not her mom, I think the other kids can too. The more time that goes by, the harder it is to understand. I'm here ready to be that woman, and I'm in a constant fight because you won't ever allow it. This isn't what I want. I can't become that woman this way. I'm bracing myself for pictures that are going to break my heart. That's where my head is at.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, you were upset that you weren't integrated into Mr. Combs' family life, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: That you didn't get a chance to form a relationship with his children, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: You had been together with him for years at this point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Almost seven years here.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you still hadn't been on family trips with him and his children, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Nope.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you would see photos of him and Kim, that was extremely hurtful, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not always.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you saw them on social media when he was on vacation with Kim and his kids together, that was a little heartbreaking, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It could be.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because it seemed as if he was in a family unit with Kim and his children and without you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wanted to be a part of his family, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Seven years of my life at this point, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You didn't just want to be part of his sexual fantasy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to Defense Exhibit 1184 just for the parties and the witness.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, may I confer briefly with counsel on this exhibit?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry. 1184. I understand Ms. Johnson may have an objection.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, the basis of the objection is 106.
THE COURT: Hold on. This exhibit has not been offered into evidence, so what are we doing with this?
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, is this a conversation between you and someone named Ruth in July 2012?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It could be.
MS. ESTEVAO: This communication came from your LI0005 MacBook Pro that you turned over to the government, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: OK. I don't know. I haven't seen this recently.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, do you remember reaching out to someone named Ruth in July 2012?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I could have. I reached out to people before, yeah. I don't know about Ruth specifically.
MS. ESTEVAO: You do not remember?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do not remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read this conversation and see if it refreshes your recollection, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does it refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes and no. Yeah. I kind of remember it. I don't really -- I don't even remember what this was about.
MS. ESTEVAO: You saw something on social media related to someone named Ruth and Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were there many women that you saw on social media who claimed to have relationships with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not many. Like a lot, but not crazy.
MS. ESTEVAO: So if there were women who had relationships with Mr. Combs on social media, would you remember it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I feel like it happened often enough that I don't know that I would remember every single one.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you reacted when you saw on social media that Mr. Combs was with some other female, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Mainly Gina.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mainly Gina.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was Gina the main problem in your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was Mr. Combs consistently denying his relationship with Gina to you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: For the most part.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how did that make you feel?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not great.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to Defense Exhibit 1028, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, can you look at this exhibit and tell me if it reflects a conversation between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1028 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1028 received in evidence).
MS. ESTEVAO: In this text exchange he asks: What am I doing disrespectful in picture, presumably? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From Sean, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: You're making me look like a side piece and that is not what I thought I was. You want me to continue?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: And you won't come to bullshit. We'll have a great time because for 2013 I'm not on any okie-doke bull. It is what it is. I am who I am to you and I'm clear. We'll have a good time, no matter what. I'm having a ball. It is what it is. I'll be happy with you, no matter what. I'll treat you as a king, no matter what.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is in response to you seeing a picture on social media, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're concerned that you are looking like a side piece. What did you mean by that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not a main girlfriend.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that upset you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Apparently so.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you wanted to be the main girlfriend, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I thought I was.
MS. ESTEVAO: You thought you were, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In 2013, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was disappointing and hurtful to find out you were not the main girlfriend, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. I just don't know what we are even talking about, though, the text message. He's talking about a picture, but I don't know what picture it is.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified on direct that you were insanely jealous, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did say that, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you reacted when you saw social media posts of Mr. Combs with other women, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were upset and angry when you saw that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you were insanely jealous, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure. But I wasn't -- I expressed that -- can I speak?
MS. ESTEVAO: Of course.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I expressed insanely jealous is who I was then and it didn't pertain to every situation, but I definitely was jealous of certain situations that he was in.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were particularly upset because Mr. Combs made it seem as if you were in a monogamous relationship sometimes, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: At least that's what he expected of you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it seemed hypocritical to you that he would date other women but simultaneously expect you to only be in a sexual relationship with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And if he learned or suspected, rather, that you were in other relationships with other men, he became insanely jealous, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Far more jealous than you in fact?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he had a bad temper, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he reacted poorly, right, to information that he didn't like, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I guess you could say that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he did not like it when he suspected that you were seeing other men, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: When he suspected you were seeing other men, that is when he lost his temper, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: One of the times when.
MS. ESTEVAO: And there were a couple of relationships in particular that he suspected you of that he was particularly upset about, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: That's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: He suspected that you were in a relationship with someone who is also in the industry, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled. Let's lay some foundation.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a point when Mr. Combs suspected that you were in a relationship with someone in the music industry?
MS. JOHNSON: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a time when he learned of this or suspected this relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you say the whole question one more time? Sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll be more direct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs made the connection between you and Mr. Mescudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Excuse me. Kid Cudi. I believe this came out on direct.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I knew what you were talking about.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs thought that if you could collaborate with Mr. Mescudi, also known as Kid Cudi, that this would be good for your career, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think that was part of it, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He helped put together studio time for you and Mr. Mescudi together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He introduced us, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: How many times did you and Mr. Mescudi go to the studio together?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was a handful of times. Not many.
MS. ESTEVAO: When was the first time the two of you were in the studio together?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember exactly. Sometime in 2011.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did Mr. Combs ever accompany you to the studio with Mr. Mescudi there?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember. I don't think so. But I don't remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: Where were you living in the fall of 2011?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was in New York City.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were in New York City in the fall of 2011?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: At what point did you come -- did you return to Los Angeles in 2011?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There was a lot of back and forth at that point. I am trying to remember like what year exactly I moved to LA, but there was like -- I was like bicoastal quite a bit back then.
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't recall when you began your relationship with Mr. Mescudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was 2011, the end of 2011.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you also testified that you had a burner phone to communicate with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs learned -- you testified that Mr. Combs learned of this relationship in December 2017, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you had a burner phone during the course of your relationship with Mr. Mescudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. It was a short period.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you get the burner phone for the purpose of your relationship, or did you already have it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I got it for the purpose of the relationship.
MS. ESTEVAO: Whose idea was the burner phone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. It was mine, I guess. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that the only time you used burner phones?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That was the only time, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: For the purpose of this relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You had been seeing Mr. Mescudi for less than a month, but you got a burner phone for the relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And would you text and call Mr. Mescudi from this phone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You had a better chance of keeping the relationship with Mr. Combs if Mr. Combs didn't find out about your relationship with Mr. Mescudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. We were like not in the best place, even when he found out and we were together at a freakoff.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why did you begin your relationship with Mr. Mescudi?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Enjoyed each other's company.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did this relationship begin when Mr. Combs was out of the country?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't think so. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did it begin while you were still with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. We had broken up.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were on a break?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We were on a break.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs found out about the relationship during your freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He did.
MS. ESTEVAO: While you were on a break, you were still having a freakoff. Is that the idea?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. That was a job.
MS. ESTEVAO: Even though you were on a break from Mr. Combs, you still wanted to use a burner phone, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you didn't want him to find out about Mr. Mescudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did not want him to find out, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you did not want to tell him about this, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I thought it would be way too dangerous to tell him about that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you anticipated his response, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because he was insanely jealous, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Had a temper.
MS. ESTEVAO: And by using a burner phone and not informing him of Mr. Mescudi you were lying to him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I wasn't telling him everything.
MS. ESTEVAO: You weren't telling him everything.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was he under the impression that you were on a break, or -- I'll rephrase. Did Mr. Combs, to your knowledge, believe that you were on a break or still together?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were continuing to have freakoffs with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you have any plan to tell Mr. Combs about this relationship with Mr. Mescudi?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you feel justified in cheating on him with Mr. Mescudi because of Mr. Combs' infidelities?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I could have, possibly. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were also communicating with Ms. Clark on the burner phone, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know if I talked to her on the burner phone. I might have. I am not sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: OK. And at this point, this is the end of 2011, so you and Mr. Combs have been together for a number of years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct. On and off.
MS. ESTEVAO: When Mr. Combs discovers the burner phone during the freakoff --
CASANDRA VENTURA: He didn't.
MS. ESTEVAO: How did he learn of the relationship with Mr. Mescudi?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He went through my phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: He went through your phone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: My actual phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were also communicating with Mr. Mescudi on your phone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was communicating with Capricorn Clark on my actual phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's when you say that Mr. Combs reacted very poorly. He attacked you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He lunged, but no contact.
MS. ESTEVAO: No contact. And then you say you called Capricorn and Capricorn came to Mr. Mescudi's house, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That happened, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you say -- you testified on direct that you returned to Mr. Combs' house, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said that you did that to speak with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Despite knowing how upset he was, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, you knew that this was so upsetting to him that he previously attacked you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did. I think I thought I would be safer with other people around because there were people there.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who was at Mr. Combs' house?
CASANDRA VENTURA: His normal staff, security, and Capricorn brought me there.
MS. ESTEVAO: You go with Mr. Mescudi to your parents' house in Connecticut, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I went on my own, and he met me there a few days later, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you say that during the course of that trip you broke up with Mr. Mescudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you got back together with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Pretty immediately, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: While you were still in Connecticut or after that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: After that, after that.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you returned to LA.
CASANDRA VENTURA: We met up in Arizona.
MS. ESTEVAO: When did you meet up in Arizona?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right before or after New Year's, the day before, day after.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to Defense Exhibit 1013, please, just for the witness and the parties.
THE COURT: Let's take a short 10-minute recess. Will be back in 10 minutes. All rise for the jury.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: We will be back in 10 minutes. Same instruction. No discussions with the government. We will be back in 10.
(Recess)
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, we've been talking about Mr. Combs -- your actual favor with Mr. Mescudi in December 2011, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that it was less than a month long, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was short, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And despite it being less than a month long that you had a burner phone for the purpose of the relationship, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that Mr. Combs did not know about the relationship and you were keeping it a secret from him, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that you broke up with Mr. Mescudi in Connecticut when you were there for the holidays visiting your family?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, right before new year's.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you met up with Mr. Combs and got back together with him in Arizona?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And prior to this, after Mr. Combs discovered the relationship with Mr. Mescudi, you went to his house to talk to him about it and that's when he kicked you in the back, according to your direct testimony, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And after he kicked you in the back, that's when you left his house, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Where did you go directly after that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Directly after that, from what I remember, I went back to my hotel that had my actual clothes. It was a whole other hotel.
MS. ESTEVAO: From there you flew to Connecticut with Mr. Mescudi?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, I flew on my own. He went home to his family for the holiday and I went to Connecticut, and then he met me there a few days later.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was from the flight to Connecticut that you sent that email that the government made an exhibit, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: When did you return from Arizona, if you recall?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From Arizona back to LA?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think we were only there for a few days.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you have returned to LA by the beginning of January?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this relationship was particularly offensive to Mr. Combs because of Kid Cudi's stature in the --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge, this was particularly offensive to Mr. Combs because of Kid Cudi's stature in the industry, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was irate over this, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because from his perspective, he was cheating on you with people who weren't celebrities, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs was not cheating on you with other celebrities, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You did not believe that Mr. Combs was cheating on you with other celebrities, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In 2011? I don't think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge.
MS. ESTEVAO: Since your relationship, you've learned that Mr. Combs had many relationships with many women, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Which is very hurtful for you, obviously?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes. And you understood that your relationship with Kid Cudi was very hurtful to Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I found out, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes. In part because of Kid Cudi's stature in the industry, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: A big part, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And because you understood that Mr. Combs put you in the studio with Kid Cudi?
MS. ESTEVAO: Putting aside the logic of it, this drove Mr. Combs crazy, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: This drove him crazy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, it definitely did not, it wasn't good, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, it wasn't just his response in December 2011, this issue came up periodically throughout your relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: What issue?
MS. ESTEVAO: That you cheated on him with Kid Cudi?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Oh, yeah, it came up a lot.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, you would frequently have text arguments about cheating, and he would bring up Kid Cudi all the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He would always throw it back in your face, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He brought it up quite a bit.
MS. ESTEVAO: You would accuse him of cheating on you with other women, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he would always come back with, well, you had an affair with Kid Cudi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not always, but yeah, that would be one of them.
MS. ESTEVAO: It would frequently come up and it would get him angry all over again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, every holiday season, he became upset just remembering the Kid Cudi incident, the anniversary of the Kid Cudi incident?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would Mr. Combs become angry over the holidays recalling the Kid Cudi incident?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't really remember that because we didn't spend the holidays together.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was a source of frustration for you, too, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were very upset that you didn't get to spend the holidays with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In the beginning, yeah. I was used to it after a while.
MS. ESTEVAO: After a while, you understood that you were never going to spend the holidays with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I guess.
MS. ESTEVAO: You had to slowly come to this realization?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We spent new year's together, 2018.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you've never spent Christmas together?
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs also accused you of having other relationships with other men, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He suspected that you were in a relationship with another celebrity, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And in the fall of 2015, you traveled to South Africa to film a movie, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, for two months.
MS. ESTEVAO: What movie was that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Honey 3.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you spent two months there, during which point you were physically separated from Mr. Combs, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And there you had colleagues and friends with you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had -- yes, I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you weren't in physical contact with Mr. Combs in any way, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. In fact, I broke it off with him while I was there.
MS. ESTEVAO: But before you got there, you were still in a relationship with him, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact, while you were in South Africa, you learned something that made you break up with him, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: What was that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He was dating Gina still, so I used it as an opportunity to just focus on the movie I was doing.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how did you learn about Gina?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe somebody reached out to me and said, hey, I just saw you at the Revolt music conference with Puff, and I wasn't there.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you began to suspect he was there with someone else, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Someone sent me a picture.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then at some point you found a video, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And in the video, you see Gina there with Mr. Combs, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, it appears as though Mr. Combs is trying to sort of hide her to the side, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: If I remember correctly, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you saw that video and you were irate, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I definitely was angry, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because at that point Mr. Combs had spent years now telling you that he was done with Gina, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was telling you that you were, if not the No. 1 girlfriend because of Kim Porter, the No. 2, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you were under the impression that Gina was out of the picture, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: So I thought.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs had given you the impression that she was no longer in the picture, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so when you learned of this when you're in South Africa, you were very upset?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was upset that day, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you cut off contact with him, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You broke up with him?
MS. ESTEVAO: You blocked him?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you focused on the movie, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Tried my best, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs learned at a certain point or suspected at a certain point that you were in a relationship -- you were beginning a relationship with someone else, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And who was that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Michael B. Jordan.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is Michael B. Jordan a celebrity?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say so.
MS. ESTEVAO: What was Mr. Combs's reaction when he heard about that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I wasn't there.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I wasn't there to see his reaction.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did he text you about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember. I don't know if he was blocked by then. Like, it's kind of fuzzy. I don't remember. But he did try to make contact.
MS. ESTEVAO: How did you learn about him knowing about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was with one of his staff members. So people were getting in contact with her.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the way that you broke up with him involved you sending the video to him and members of his staff, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You sent it to D-Roc, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who else did you send it to, if you recall?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. Just the group that was probably around at that point. I'm trying to think 2015 --
MS. ESTEVAO: You sent it to Eli, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Eli, yeah. Whoever was around at that particular time.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you send it to April?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you sent it to them because you were angry with all of them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was really hurt.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were upset.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was hurt.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you felt that they were part of your family, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: That they were on your side, on your team, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I spent all my time with them when I was home, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact, I know you talked on direct about Mr. Combs's security guards and how they were employed by Mr. Combs, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, you were very close with his security guards and, in particular, D-Roc, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You were very close with D-Roc's wife, April, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you felt safe with them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you confided in them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And if you were in trouble, you sought help from them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would go to their house for sure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you sent the message with the video from the Revolt conference to D-Roc, Eli, KK, Derek, and Rube. Does that sound right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sounds about right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Those were the people around back then?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were upset with all of them because you were under the impression that they were all in on this with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Everybody was lying, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: They must have known, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, in my mind.
MS. ESTEVAO: In your mind. What gave you that impression?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That everyone was always around when I wasn't there, so they would see what's going on. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were so upset with them because you felt like they were part of your family, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So even though you weren't part of Mr. Combs's family with his kids, you felt like with the staff that you interacted with, with Mr. Combs, that was your family, that was your core group, right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you trusted you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And they broke that confidence, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that they broke it in that one period, but yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you were in South Africa after you had broken it off with all of them and you were on your own in another country in another time zone, you were working on your movie, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you stayed in close contact with your other friends, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From home, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You have several friends that are just yours from home that are separate from Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup, for the most part.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you rely on them and they support you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess it depends who you're talking about, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: For example, Ms. Morgan you knew for years and years, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And your friend Diontae Nash you knew for a long time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you trusted them and they support you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also have the support from your family, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In general?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In general, of course.
MS. ESTEVAO: And during this time period?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were close with your mother, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your father, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your brother?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And they all knew about the physical problems with your relationship with Mr. Combs, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
MS. ESTEVAO: You told each of them in various ways during various points during your relationship that you and Mr. Combs had physical problems, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: You told each of them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At different points, yes, but I don't know if it was all necessarily before this point we're talking about.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, you told your mother back in December 2011 about the physical abuse, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So she knew about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: She did.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did she know about it before then, too?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, I didn't tell her.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your brother knew about it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know exactly when we spoke about it, honestly.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your brother's very protective of you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did your father know about this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: About the abuse?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: He found out with my mother in 2011, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did there come a point at which Mr. Combs flew to Connecticut and talked to your parents about this physical abuse?
CASANDRA VENTURA: About physical abuse? I don't know that that's what they talked about, but he did come to Connecticut, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He talked about problems in your relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would guess so. I don't really know what the purpose of the trip was.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you present for a conversation between Mr. Combs and your parents?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had been present for conversations, I just don't know specifically what you're talking about.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your friends also knew about the physical abuse in your relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Unfortunately, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Morgan knew about it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: At least as of 2016, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Before that, but yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When did she learn about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Kerry was with me from day one, so she had been around me for quite a while.
MS. ESTEVAO: So she may have known about it from the very beginning, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, possibly.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because she was back with you in New York, New York days, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: What about Mr. Nash, did he know about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He did know about it. He also experienced it himself.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did he know about it before that point?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Before he was involved? I think so. I would think so. I don't know, but --
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you say that he experienced it himself, you're referring to the August 2013 incident where Mr. Combs woke you up in your apartment and Mr. Nash and Mia were there, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not necessarily just that time. He was around for other things that happened with just me and Sean.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was at least there during this August 2013 --
MS. ESTEVAO: And I'm referring to the time when you --
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: -- hit your eyebrow. I know, I'm all over the place.
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, that's okay. There's a lot.
MS. ESTEVAO: We have 11 years to cover.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was there during the August 2013 eyebrow gash incident, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was an incident that was related to -- I believe you testified on direct that Mr. Combs was upset that you weren't doing something?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Didn't answer the phone and went to sleep, was supposed to be packing for a trip.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were supposed to be packing for a trip and he was upset that he came home and found you asleep, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was unreachable and he came in and found me, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was particularly inebriated at that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I don't remember that.
MS. ESTEVAO: During that incident, the eyebrow one, for lack of a better term, were you and your friends doing drugs that evening?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We weren't doing drugs that night, but I went to the Abbey and I had a drink, and I think it had something in it, which is why I fell asleep when I got home. We weren't particularly partying a lot that day. It wasn't like -- yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was Mr. Combs intoxicated when he came into the room that evening?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: That evening you were with your friends at the Abbey, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Like, afternoon. It was daytime.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were with your friends and Mr. Combs was upset you weren't packing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. He couldn't get in touch I think was the issue initially, but -- it's in the text.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he became so upset, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please pull up Government Exhibit B-247, and scroll down.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the bottom, you say, so you can remember, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs frequently reacted to your accusations of physical abuse by saying he did not remember the incidents, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That would be something, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You can take this down.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said, so you can remember, so that he couldn't make that excuse, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I've seen this message a couple times and I'm not really sure why I said so you could remember, even still.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, during the time Mr. Combs frequently said he could not remember, right, what had happened the previous evening?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I guess if he was partying. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Frequently, when he was inebriated, that's when he did things that were less pleasant, he would not treat people right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you ever witnessed Mr. Combs inebriated and being abusive towards other people?
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you ever witnessed him be inebriated and abusive to you?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said before that he has said to you, after these occasions, he did not remember, did not recall?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was frustrating to you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because he would have these episodes that were awful, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wanted him to take personal responsibility for that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I definitely always wanted him to take responsibility, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And by saying he didn't remember, you believed he wasn't taking responsibility for it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, that's fair to say.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were there times in your relationship where you and Mr. Combs would discuss getting off of drugs and stop using?
MS. ESTEVAO: Was this a frequent topic of conversation?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I feel like it was pretty frequent, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact there were times when you both did go to rehab, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We got off of different things. Rehab wasn't really a thing during our relationship.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, there were times when you would just try to withdraw from opiates, for example, on your own, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And sometimes you would try to do it without any assistance, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you would relapse, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he would, too?
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was a cycle, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You were both addicts, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: During that time, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And part of the appeal of freak-offs was going to do drugs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Part of it at a time. There are different reasons for me.
MS. ESTEVAO: The freak-offs were also a time to do drugs in a safe, confined space, in a hotel room, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So for someone like Mr. Combs who is a celebrity and well known, it's an opportunity for him to take drugs and experiment and not be seen by anyone, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you and Mr. Combs used that time as a special time to do drugs together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was a special time to also experiment with different drugs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We definitely experimented with different drugs, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And some took and some didn't, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You tried psychedelics, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And GHB?
MS. ESTEVAO: And ketamine?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also took these drugs while partying in other places, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You typically went to Burning Man, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you did a lot of ketamine at Burning Man?
MS. ESTEVAO: You both did?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you had many friends in your friend group that also did a lot of drugs, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: It was a little bit of a drug party culture that you were both in, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was kind of what drew you to each other, too, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think the drugs became a thing over time in our relationship. It was, like, always part of our relationship, but became a main event for us.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were able to keep up with him in a way more than other people?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Surprisingly so, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because he operates at a very intense level, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did some of his assistants and employees also go to Burning Man?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so you would take drugs at these freak-offs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And one reason why the freak-offs lasted for so long, for many days, was because of all of the drugs you were ingesting and the recovery time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And it wasn't only sex that you were doing in the hotel, right, having in the hotel?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were also listening to music, hanging out?
CASANDRA VENTURA: True.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, I believe part of the reason you wanted to participate in the freak-offs was to have your time with him, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was a special time that you cherished, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You wanted to be close with him?
MS. ESTEVAO: And connect with him?
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever call each other "get high partners"?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We did.
MS. ESTEVAO: You did. What did that mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Exactly what it says. We got high together as partners.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a time when Mr. Combs did not want you to be ingesting so many drugs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There were different periods where, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm pointing you generally to the 2016 time period, the summer of 2016 when you were hanging out with your friend Bana, Ms. Bongolan.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did Mr. Combs like Ms. Bongolan, like you hanging out with Ms. Bongolan?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't think he loved it, but they also had their own relationship, so I'm not really -- I'm not sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, part of the reason he didn't want you hanging out with Ms. Bongolan was all the drugs you were doing with Ms. Bongolan, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you do drugs with Ms. Bongolan?
MS. ESTEVAO: And other friends in that friend group?
MS. ESTEVAO: What drugs were you doing with them?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was taking opiates and she was doing something different, but I was taking opiates.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs didn't hang out with Ms. Bongolan in this friend group, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not really.
MS. ESTEVAO: So this was completely separate?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Ms. Bongolan also provided you drugs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: She did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And she provided you with ketamine, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember her providing me with ketamine, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did she provide you with opiates?
MS. ESTEVAO: And at this point you were highly addicted to opiates, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was not happy with your opiate addiction around this time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Which you felt was pretty hypocritical given his own addiction, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It felt unfair when he was so hard on you when he, himself, was a full blown drug addict, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, you could say.
MS. ESTEVAO: So in this friend group, did you take a variety of drugs all together?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Occasionally, but for me it was really just about opiates.
MS. ESTEVAO: What drug did Ms. Bongolan do?
CASANDRA VENTURA: She did cocaine.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you do cocaine, as well?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I have done cocaine, yeah. I did it, tried everything.
MS. ESTEVAO: So Mr. Combs, in a hypocritical fashion in your mind, was telling you to stop doing drugs with your friends, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. He was -- I took it as, in my mind, if we weren't getting high, that it was a problem, like if him and I weren't getting high together or if I wasn't doing it with him, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So from your perspective, you thought that he only wanted you to get high with him and not with your friends; is that the idea?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he expressed to you multiple times that he wanted you to stop doing drugs with your friends, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that he expressed it multiple times. He definitely was angry about it if he found out about it.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was angry when he found out about you doing drugs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: How would he react when he found out about you doing drugs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Pretty explosive.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yeah?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were there ever times when you took drugs from him without him knowing about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were there times when he found out that you had done that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what was his reaction?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Explosive.
MS. ESTEVAO: Explosive?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a time during this summer 2016 time period when he made efforts to stop your consumption of drugs?
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge, did he tell drug dealers in the Los Angeles area -- or have it communicated to drug dealers in the Los Angeles area that they were not to deal drugs to you?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh. Didn't stop anybody from bringing drugs, that's for sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you learned he was making that effort, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I don't know it was then, but it happened at some point. I don't know if it was in 2016.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yesterday you testified about an incident where Mr. Combs came to your apartment when Ms. Bongolan and your other friends were there, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, it was Bana and one other person and me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who was the per person?
CASANDRA VENTURA: A friend of hers, I think. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it her girlfriend?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so, at the time. I was asleep in my room when he got there.
MS. ESTEVAO: So when he got there, you were asleep?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was in my room with the door closed, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that when you woke up, you went out to the patio, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When I heard commotion, I came out of my room and, yeah, he was holding Bana.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you came out and you saw him holding Bana?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that you saw him throw her onto the patio furniture, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup. He brought her back over the balcony and he threw her down.
MS. ESTEVAO: After this incident with Ms. Bongolan, you texted Mr. Combs's chief of staff, Ms. Khorram, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember, but possibly, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could we show the witness defense exhibit 1340, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this your recollection about whether or not you sent Ms. Khorram a text message about the incident?
CASANDRA VENTURA: This is her text thread with me, I'm guessing? Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Just read it to yourself, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Didn't you tell Ms. Khorram that you just learned about Mr. Combs's activities on the balcony?
THE COURT: You want to take this document down or are you leaving it up?
MS. ESTEVAO: We can take it down.
MS. ESTEVAO: You told Ms. Khorram that you learned after the fact that Mr. Combs supposedly dangled Ms. Bongolan's feet off the balcony, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You didn't tell Ms. Khorram that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure what you're asking me. It's kind of confusing.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you tell Ms. Khorram that you had just learned something crazy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, now it's taken down, but I saw that I did text that. I don't know if that's what I'm referring to, because a lot of crazy things happened.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, you were on drugs at the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not that night, I was asleep.
MS. ESTEVAO: Earlier that night, you were not taking drugs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall this text message?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sort of, but it's now taken down and I can't remember it, so I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would looking at it help refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could we put it back up, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm still reading it. Okay. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Isn't it true that you learned about this incident on the balcony after the fact?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I saw what I saw. So I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Has the government, in your preparation for your testimony in this case, gone over this message with you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not this one, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you continue to hide your drug use from Mr. Combs throughout 2016 and early 2017?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I'm sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there come a point at which Mr. Combs learned about the extent of your drug use in early 2017?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I don't remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall Mr. Combs encouraging you strongly to go to rehab in early 2017?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall getting a life coach to help you with your addiction?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do recall. There were a few different people that came in over the years, so I'm trying to, like, place who the life coach would have been. There were a couple different people.
MS. ESTEVAO: The place were you in early 2017 before you go to Sedona, I believe.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up just for the witness defense exhibit 1369.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this refresh your recollection as to this particular life coach in February 2017?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you go back. And then next page. Okay. I don't know who that other person is.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, you don't remember much from this whole time period, right, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was a rough time.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were doing a lot of drugs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were trying to find your way into a rehab facility called the Goldendoor, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's not a rehab facility, but yeah. It's like a spa.
MS. ESTEVAO: A spa?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I come to find out, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs found out that you were doing more drugs than you had disclosed to him, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: As I'm remembering this time period, there was a big issue over new year's where I got very sick and I lost all sense of smell and taste when I woke up and had an IV in my room. After that was when I started to, like, look for help. So that just came to me. Just wanted to share it.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you periodically, during the periods of intense drug use, had physical symptoms, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: There were side effects to your drug use, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, over the amount of time that they were used and everything, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, there were side effects to your drug use that Mr. Combs noticed, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs recommended that you see doctors for certain of these side effects, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At that time, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was noticing that you were acting funny and he didn't know that you were using so many drugs because you didn't tell him, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, just, some of these questions, I think they just need to be rephrased.
MS. ESTEVAO: You weren't telling Mr. Combs about the extent of your drug use, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Throughout the relationship, I didn't share with him everything about my drug use, but we were also using a lot of drugs together.
MS. ESTEVAO: During this particular time period, you were using a lot of drugs without Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was definitely using drugs, as I said yesterday, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were using drugs without Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And because Mr. Combs did not know about this extra drug use, he, to your knowledge, did not understand the side effects that you were experiencing, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And what was his reaction to those side effects, given his lack of knowledge?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm confused by the question.
MS. ESTEVAO: How did he react to the side effects? He was concerned, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He had concern throughout the relationship, but these things don't all go together. I'm sorry. I can't, like, it's not like a yes or no.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's okay. Were there times when Mr. Combs was concerned for your health?
MS. ESTEVAO: And I'm not talking about UTIs and that sort of thing, I mean concerned about really, like your mental health, your brain health, those kind of things?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I can imagine, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's because he observed you acting strangely, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were acting strangely in front of Mr. Combs, in light of your side effects, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Can we clarify side effects.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, what's it like to take too much ketamine, for example?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Just disassociate from the present completely, like, you're somewhere else.
MS. ESTEVAO: And have you ever been around someone who is dissociating on ketamine?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you're not on ketamine so you're able to observe this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do they act like?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Exactly like I said, like they're not there. They're in a whole other space.
MS. ESTEVAO: So did you experience some of those side effects from ketamine?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did at a point, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs would have observed those side effects, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He could have, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you didn't ultimately go to Goldendoor?
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you continue using drugs throughout that year?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I went to Sedona, because it's in the message. So I was trying to recover somehow, but I know that immediately coming back from that trip, we partied together and had a freak-off and carried on.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall your testimony yesterday about your trip to Con?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that Mr. Combs was upset with you and squeezed your thigh, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was because Mr. Combs suspected you had taken drugs from him without asking, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was irate over this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He was very angry about it, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, it was one of those times he went into a rage, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: What I would consider, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: As was typical for him when drugs were taken from him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: And other times.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, he was particularly upset with you when he learned that you stole drugs from him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When he thought I stole drugs from him.
MS. ESTEVAO: When he thought you stole drugs. That wasn't the only time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember other times when you took drugs from him and he was upset about it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you believe it did happen on other occasions?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this would be his opiates, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Opiates or anything, yeah. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: But in particular, he was extremely dependent on his opiates, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: For a time.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was very upset if his opiates were taken away from him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess so.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember when Mr. Combs overdosed in February 2012?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Was that around the time Whitney Houston died?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe so. What was going on that evening before he overdosed?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That evening, we had a freak-off, we went to a sex club in San Bernardino, and then he had a party at the Play Boy Mansion that night and I went home.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you eventually learn what happened at the Play Boy Mansion?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, from what he told me, he took a very strong opiate that night, but we didn't know what was happening, so took him to the hospital.
MS. ESTEVAO: You assisted in taking him to the hospital?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you learned at the hospital that he had overdosed, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I think so. I don't remember exactly when we found out, but --
MS. ESTEVAO: And he overdosed from painkillers, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in your text messages, when you and Mr. Combs are referring to PKs, does that refer to painkillers?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you're frequently talking about painkillers, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you were both heavily relying on painkillers?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did there ever come a time in your relationship where you and he were not dependent on painkillers?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right after we did ibogaine.
MS. ESTEVAO: When was that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know what year.
MS. ESTEVAO: What does ibogaine do?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It is plant medicine that helps you detox off of different drugs and alcohol. It's not legal in the U.S.
MS. ESTEVAO: Like a natural remedy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, plant medicine.
MS. ESTEVAO: Where did you get it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We flew separately to Mexico, to Cancun, and did it. He did it first, I did it after him.
MS. ESTEVAO: How long did that last before you both relapsed?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I wouldn't say very long, but it worked.
MS. ESTEVAO: It worked temporarily?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Temporarily, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did someone named Sathari help you with that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, she was there. Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was in Mexico because it's not legal here, that's the idea?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you don't remember how long this lasted before you both relapsed, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Could have been a couple months. I don't really know. Not long.
MS. ESTEVAO: So almost the entire duration of your relationship, you were both addicted to painkillers?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Very close to it, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But periodically withdrawing and being affected by the withdrawal symptoms in your relationship, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was a big part of Mr. Combs's mood swings, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know if it was a big part, but I think it was a part.
MS. ESTEVAO: You understood that if he did not get his painkillers that was reliant on, that it would affect his mood, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, anybody that's addicted to painkillers is like that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs in particular was affected by it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge and in your experience with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were particularly attuned to his mood for good reason, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, we were together.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, I think during your direct testimony you said that you knew how to handle him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember, but it's possible I said that.
MS. ESTEVAO: You understood him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were very close with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Very.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you could understand his moods better than other people, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I guess so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you could anticipate his changes in moods better than other people, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not always, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up for the witness 1183. I'm sorry. We can take this down.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura --
MS. ESTEVAO: Referring you back to the Con incident in May of 2012 --
MS. ESTEVAO: -- you acknowledged your own drug addiction at that point, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, that was why you took drugs from him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When specifically are you talking about?
MS. ESTEVAO: During the Con trip in 2012.
CASANDRA VENTURA: But I didn't take drugs from him.
MS. ESTEVAO: But he suspected?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He suspected that I did, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you used it as a time to reflect on your relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sorry. Used what? I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: The events at Con, when he was accusing you of taking his drugs, even though you didn't?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: It caused a big argument, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was very upset by it?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he squeezed your leg in the theater.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Amongst other things, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And despite this incident, you still wanted to be together with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did. I still wanted to be with him, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was not a major breaking point in your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It could have been, but -- yeah. On the way home it was really intense, and I just wanted him to be happy, so I couldn't tell you.
MS. ESTEVAO: You wanted him to be happy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum. Because he was so angry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Turning to the other instances of violence that you talked about yesterday, Ms. Ventura.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: You referred to a couple of times when you were beaten in the back of a car, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: One of those was after a dinner where you shrugged at another person in the industry, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: When I say the industry, you understand what I mean, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you take that to mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Entertainment.
MS. ESTEVAO: In the entertainment industry.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs was upset by that, very upset, angry.
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And took it out on you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because of that slight, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also talked about another instance in the back of a car in Los Angeles after the Ace of Diamonds, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: That's because he suspected you of dancing with another man, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was speaking to a producer, a music producer.
MS. ESTEVAO: Excuse me. Speaking to a music producer.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Also someone in the industry.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he perceived both of these as enormous slights, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And very offensive to him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he took that out on you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Oh, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You told the jury -- switching topics -- about D-Roc and Mr. Combs going to confront Suge Knight at Mel's Diner. Do you remember that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: You told the jury that you did not go along with them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember telling some of the prosecutors and agents here that you did go along with them?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up 3501-016.
MS. JOHNSON: Just for the parties.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes. At page 4, please. I'm sorry, can we go up to the first page --
MS. ESTEVAO: This reflects?
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor.
MS. ESTEVAO: I know. Withdrawn. Now we can go back down to page 4.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall a June 6, 2024 meeting where you told prosecutors and agents that you remembered being brought along in a car and crying during this incident?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. That's totally incorrect.
MS. ESTEVAO: You did not tell them this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't go in the car with them.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you would not have told them that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't think so, no. Can I read it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It could be a misunderstanding. That's not what happened.
MS. ESTEVAO: You never told them that, because you never went with them?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did not go with them, no, but I'm pretty sure I always said that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. You can take this down.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yesterday you testified about your relationship with Ms. Morgan. Do you remember that?
MS. ESTEVAO: You said that in 2018 she got into an altercation with Mr. Combs that ended your friendship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: This was in August 2018, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: This was like earlier in the summer, maybe May, June. I don't know. It wasn't August, though.
MS. ESTEVAO: About May or June you think?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Like earlier, a couple of months earlier, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And had you broken up with Mr. Combs at this point?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was around the same time. I'm not sure if it had already happened or not yet.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you already in a relationship with your husband at this point?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was dating him, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also did drugs with Ms. Morgan, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that Mr. Combs came to your apartment and he was upset because he found you doing drugs with Ms. Morgan, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. He saw the drugs on the table.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said that he came in, saw that we were doing drugs, and hit Kerry in the head with a hanger. Is that right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember meeting with the government on April 8, 2025 and telling them you did not see what Mr. Combs had done to Kerry?
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't recall?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't recall. I know that I talked about it more specifically, and I was in the bathroom when he arrived, and he saw Ms. Morgan. When I came out, he had hit her in the head with the wooden hanger.
MS. ESTEVAO: So is your testimony today that you did see him hit her with a wooden hanger?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't think I ever said I saw it.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you did not see it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I heard it. I heard it, came out, and she was hurt.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you were in the bathroom when this happened?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There was a bathroom at the front door. He came through the front door. I heard the yelling, and I came out of the bathroom.
MS. ESTEVAO: And after you came out of the bathroom, it had already --
CASANDRA VENTURA: The situation, altercation happened.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was over by that point?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you found Mr. Combs there and you saw that he was angry, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Angry, saw the hanger, saw her upset, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what did you think that Mr. Combs would be angry at Ms. Morgan for?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I thought he was angry that we had drugs.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at the time he wanted you to stop doing drugs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He wanted me to stop doing drugs with other people.
MS. ESTEVAO: He didn't want you to be doing drugs with Ms. Morgan on that occasion, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct. I don't think so. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And despite the fact that you had broken up with Mr. Combs and were dating someone else, this fight broke up your friendship with Ms. Morgan, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is your friendship of many, many years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, 17 years.
MS. ESTEVAO: Predates your relationship with Mr. Combs?
MS. ESTEVAO: And at the time of this incident you were already seeing your now husband, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Like I said, we were dating, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs didn't know about this relationship with your now husband, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: You need to rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you tell Mr. Combs about your relationship with your husband, now husband?
MS. ESTEVAO: So to your knowledge, he did not know?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, he did not know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And were you giving Mr. Combs the impression that you were still in a relationship with him, or had you broken up?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At that point I feel like we had broken up by then. It's all like on top of each other, like datewise, the thing with Kerry, me finding out about whatever he was doing that made me break up with him, kind of around the same time. So I don't know exactly.
MS. ESTEVAO: You had been friends with Ms. Morgan for 17 years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this assault ended your friendship with her, even though you were no longer with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. She was very mad.
MS. ESTEVAO: She was mad at you in particular, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact she ended up suing Mr. Combs and you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not formally.
MS. ESTEVAO: Or made a demand against you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Made a demand, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You paid part of that demand personally, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you felt responsible in some way?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you've had no communication with Ms. Morgan since this lawsuit, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact you've had no communication with her since this hanger incident, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We might have had a text like here and there that year, but I really have not talked to her. I haven't seen her in years.
MS. ESTEVAO: That was the friendship ending event, after you had been with each other for so long?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Now might be a good time for a break, if the Court is inclined.
THE COURT: The Court is not inclined, so let's keep going.
MS. ESTEVAO: That is fine.
THE COURT: We will take a break in 15 minutes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified yesterday that you would get Johnson & Johnson baby oil from the drug store, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And just to clarify information not in the record, there were no drugs in baby oil, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not the ones -- no.
MS. ESTEVAO: No, never in your experience, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: If you took drugs, you always took them orally, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified yesterday that you would heat up the baby oil, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's the only thing you did to it, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you even testified about this baby pool filled with oil, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that would require a lot of it, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: It would explain Mr. Combs having lots of baby oil, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn. Can we pull up Government Exhibit B625, please.
MS. JOHNSON: Did you want 625? Because this is 265.
MS. ESTEVAO: One moment.
MS. JOHNSON: 265.
MS. ESTEVAO: 625. B625. Can we go to the first page.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is from March 5, 2016, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is shortly before the Intercontinental incident, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: So what you gonna do so I can plan the rest of my night. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is the beginning of the government's exhibit, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's where you started during your direct testimony talking about this, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message. The one before it.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: Baby, I want to FO so bad, but don't want to fuck myself up. What am I to do. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: When asked why you sent this message, you testified: I definitely didn't want to mess myself up -- mess up my body for my premier by partying, but I was telling him that I wanted to have an FO with him. That's what you testified, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said it was a bit of a damage control ahead. I personally felt like if I sort of initiated, go along with creating this, then my premier wouldn't be ruined. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you testified you were trying to get ahead of it in some way, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You said: He would have just made it miserable for me. I never really had like the chance to or opportunity to enjoy the things that I'd worked really hard on, so it just felt like I was just trying to play a balancing act a bit. Right? That's what you testified about this message?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we show just the witness and the parties Defense Exhibit 1088, please. Can we scroll through for her.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, we can scroll through. Can you, when you're ready, tell us if that reflects your conversation with Mr. Combs the day prior, on March 4, 2016.
MS. ESTEVAO: So starting at the beginning --
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit Defense Exhibit 1088.
MS. JOHNSON: I just need a minute more. Your Honor, this is a 49-page exhibit, so I need a moment to read it.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, you had asked for a break, so it's a good time for a break.
MS. ESTEVAO: OK. Thank you.
THE COURT: The jury will be back in 10 minutes.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: We will be back in 10 minutes. Please be seated, and we will be back in 10 minutes. Let's try to start exactly at 4:05.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Let's have Ms. Ventura back. Welcome back. Home stretch for today. We will get our jury back.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up for the witness and the parties Defense Exhibit 1088 again.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, can you review the first 15 pages of this exhibit, please, if you haven't already.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure. Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect the conversation between you and Mr. Combs in March -- it's reflected as UTC time March 4, 2016?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't go through all the pages.
MS. ESTEVAO: It appears to be?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It appears to be.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection, your Honor, but I do want to clarify that with the UTC time the date on the first message is actually March 3.
THE COURT: 1088 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1088 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish to the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: As Ms. Johnson said, the time is in UTC time. While it says March 4, these text messages are actually on March 3.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: This begins with Mr. Combs referring to dope accessories. Do you know what he's referring to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would guess for the Met ball. He's talking about accessories.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is before the Intercontinental incident.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, maybe it's just about that premier.
MS. ESTEVAO: With respect to your accessories for your premier?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I was looking at the date as if it was May. I don't know why.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you respond to him: Which one? And I hope you're OK. I love you. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say, please let me know if it gets bad and if you need me, I was going to go to bed soon, but I'll leave my phone on loud, do you know what you're referring to here when you say, let me know if it gets bad?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When I read ahead, it says, I know you're sick, so I'm assuming he's sick.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can read ahead. He says: Get some rest. And can you read your next message.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I know you're sick, but I have to tell you this and maybe you can read this later and enjoy it. You want me to read this out loud?
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't have to read the explicit portion of the message. Suffice to say that this is an explicit message from you to him, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: That's sexual in nature, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was sent UTC time March 4, which is actually March 3, right, so two days before the Intercontinental incident, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: It happened just now, referring back to the explicit message from the page before.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go back to the earlier message for reference.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it's just another explicit message, fair to say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go down to the next message, please. I think you skipped one, Mr. McLeod.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Too bad you have to work, LOL. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was referring to the work that you had to do in connection with your premier, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And there were events in connection with your premier the day before, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The day -- I'm sorry. Are you finished?
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry. Excuse me. I was not clear. The day -- I'll rephrase. The day after this message there were additional premier events that you were expected to attend.
MS. ESTEVAO: What were those events?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was more than likely promo, so just the promo that you do before the film comes out.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then on the day of the premier you also had promotional events that you were expected to participate in, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Probably so. I don't really remember the day of.
MS. ESTEVAO: So there were a number of promotional events associated with the premier that you had to participate in. You might not remember them specifically, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's referencing the work that you have to do for the premier of the promotional events, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you would need to be pretty focused for those events; you couldn't be recovering from taking a lot of drugs. Is that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: That's the context for this conversation?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So he says: Too bad you have to work, LOL, in response to you sending those sexually explicit messages, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your message in green.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I know. Gunnar was like, whatever you do, no partying this weekend. Only get this look once. It's frustrating.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then you send another explicit text message, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he received these three text messages, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is followed by another explicit text message that we don't have to read.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: And so there are a number of explicit text messages sent from you that we don't need to read that he received, right, from you?
MS. ESTEVAO: And his response is mm, right, with a number of Ms, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Tomorrow. And you say: OK. Is that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: What's wrong?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I just love you.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: I love you too. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you ask him: Are you feeling better? Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he is discussing bodily functions, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And earlier we were talking about the side effects of withdrawal, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And would the side effects of withdrawal involve bodily functions such as this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And would it involve feeling sick?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it's fair to say that you thought that he was going through withdrawal during this particular time period?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know, actually, if that's what was going on. He is sick. He is clearly sick, but I just don't know why or if there is a reason.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can see in the messages that he's experiencing sickness and bodily functions, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I can see that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And those are side effects that you understand to be -- those are physical symptoms that are side effects of withdrawal, to your knowledge, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge.
MS. ESTEVAO: Without knowing exactly what was going on with him on this day it could have been, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say at the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I say: I love you. Drink water and Gatorade and get rest. I'm sure you'll feel better in the morning.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that message also suggests that it could be that he is going through withdrawal, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says in response to that: Thanks, babe. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what does he say under that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I love you. You look beautiful.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: Proud of you. Have a great day. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then there is a time difference between the next message. There is some period of time between, proud of you, have a great day and your next message of, thank you and thank you for coming. It meant a lot. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Could I get clarity on what the time actually was in between?
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, there is a stip that's been admitted that I think could help clarify the time.
THE COURT: Well, Ms. Estevao, there is a request that's been made about clarity as to the time period. So maybe you can ask some questions.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's fair. I will need one moment. Can we pull up stipulation 1303, please, which is in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, UTC is during daylight savings time between early March and early November of four hours ahead of Eastern. And while this does not say when daylight savings time began, I am going to confer with the government --
THE COURT: Hold on. Ms. Ventura, to the extent that the timing is relevant and prevents you from answering the question, then you should let Ms. Estevao know. Otherwise, we will proceed. Ms. Estevao, let's have your next question.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. Can we return to these a bit.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: Thank you and thank you for coming. It meant a lot. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's referring to a lunch that you had for your premier that Mr. Combs attended at the London Hotel, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess so. I do remember something like that happening, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: There was a lunch in connection with the premier?
CASANDRA VENTURA: With the movie, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs attended that lunch?
MS. ESTEVAO: And do you recall that lunch?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I remember him coming. Yeah. I remember him coming to promo.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was supportive at that lunch.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says -- and that's what you're referring to in this text message. You're thanking him for coming to the promotional lunch, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That sounds right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in response he says: No problem. What are you doing? I just got out of a spiritual therapy session. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say in response to that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's great. How do you feel?
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Pretty good. It's a process. What are you doing now? What's your plans. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Trying to decompress. I gave a lot of people my energy today. I just finished the brunch. Kerry just got here trying to figure it out.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Kerry refers to Ms. Morgan, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say she just got here, you mean she arrived in Los Angeles from New York, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Maybe, yeah. Or where I was at that time.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was she staying with you in your apartment during that time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't really remember. Probably. She stayed with me often.
MS. ESTEVAO: In any event, she had just gotten to wherever you were?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were trying to figure it out, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And she is still your best friend at this point.
CASANDRA VENTURA: She is.
MS. ESTEVAO: And she was supportive of you in all things at this point, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: What about you? Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Trying to figure it out now. Correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: And then he says: Are you getting rest tonight, or are you all going out?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he is referring to you and potentially Ms. Morgan or your other friends, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Maybe celebrating you and your premier?
MS. ESTEVAO: He is going to ask you if you are going to rest, go out, what you're going to do, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, people are talking Hooray's but you know me, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: What's Hooray's?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe it's a place called Hooray Henry's. I don't know exactly what it is. Like a nighttime spot in LA.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you think you meant by, but you know me?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I actually don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: OK. Have fun. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: In response to you saying either we are going out or you know me, whatever that means, he says, regardless, you have fun. You do you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I don't think I have ever been a huge going-out person. That could be what it means, you know me. Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You have never been a huge going-out person?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, no. Personally liked it? Like no.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you did a lot of it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did a lot of it.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact you were paid handsomely for it, I think I recall, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You spent a lot of time in clubs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. Too much.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the club scene in New York and the club scene in LA?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you're familiar with --
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm familiar.
MS. ESTEVAO: -- culture. Thank you. So going back to the messages, you say: I want to spend time with my baby. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's referring to Mr. Combs?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you're again asking him to spend time with you, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: OK. Well, let me know either way so I can plan my night. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: Love you so much. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he said: You looked so sexy today. And after what appears to be a nonresponse he says: Hello. Well, hit me when you have time. Is that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is all in the period of days leading up to the Intercontinental incident that we have all been talking about, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he is saying: Well, connect with me if you have time.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say in response?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Thank you, baby. I love you so much and you looked so sexy today.
MS. ESTEVAO: Again, that's so with many Os, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: So what you gonna do so I can plan the rest of my night, right? Is that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's asking you -- you've decided, right --
MS. ESTEVAO: -- the question that he put to you before, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you go to the next page, please, Mr. McLeod.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is where the government's exhibit picks up, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Let's move forward with the question.
MS. ESTEVAO: The next message is -- can you read the next message for me.
CASANDRA VENTURA: My message?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Baby, I want to FO so bad, but I don't want to fuck myself up. What am I to do.
MS. ESTEVAO: So at this point this is the fifth text message to him suggesting that you guys get together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And after he was asking you multiple times what you wanted to do, it was up to you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he again says: What would you want to do? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is where you say: I am going to BOA quickly to see Erin because I didn't get to see her and we can have fun. Referring to you and Mr. Combs, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Then you say: I don't want you thinking I don't want to. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: As in you don't want him to think that you don't want to have a freakoff.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct. Because he's asking me over and over again.
MS. ESTEVAO: After you have asked him over and over again.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I guess. It's just like, you know, when you're with somebody and you know how they speak, and you know what they mean when they text certain things. It's like that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go back to the text messages earlier -- A. We can.
MS. ESTEVAO: -- Mr. McLeod. Can we start at the top. We can skip: With some dope accessories. Can we go to the next one.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says get some rest. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: Too bad you have to work. LOL. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says hmm in response to your three explicit text messages, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: Tomorrow. What's wrong. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next messages.
MS. ESTEVAO: I love you too. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next messages. We can skip that one. Can we go to the next page.
(Continued on next page)
MS. ESTEVAO: He says thanks, babe, I love you, you look beautiful, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Proud of you, have a great day, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And then, no problem, what you doing? I just got out of a spiritual therapy session, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Pretty good. It's a process — referring to spiritual therapy presumably — what are you doing now, what's your plans, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says he's trying to figure out his plans and asking, are you getting rest tonight or are you going out, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to his next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Okay. Have fun, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Let's go to his next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Okay. Well, let me know either way so I can plan my night, right? And I love you so much.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right. And keywords are, so I can plan my night.
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura, just answer the question and then --
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You look so sexy today. Hello. Well, hit me when you have time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Next.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then he asks you, again, so what you gonna do so I can plan the rest of my night, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: He wants to know what you want to do, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: He again asks what you want to do, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Because at this point you have proposed a number of things, right, you've proposed a freak-off, you've proposed going out with your girlfriends, and you proposed just being you, assuming that means staying in, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page. I'm sorry. Can we back up a page.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is the message at the top where you say, baby, I want to FO so bad, but I don't want to fuck myself up. What am I to do, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is the one that you were asked about in your direct testimony, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is the one that you were asked why you sent this message, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said you were doing damage control, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you didn't want him to ruin your premiere, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at this point Mr. Combs has sent you a number of loving messages, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's participated in a promotional event for your movie, right, a luncheon?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think he just came, but yeah, he came.
MS. ESTEVAO: That went smoothly, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: And was supportive of whatever decision you wanted to make in terms of how you wanted to spend your time, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He appeared to be supportive of whatever decision you wanted to make, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's the interpretation that you received from these messages, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it reads.
MS. ESTEVAO: So he says, what would you want to do, and that's when you say, we can have fun... I don't want you thinking I don't want to, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then what do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: So let's do it. Can you set it up, though, so I can just run home and grab stuff.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then he says, I think if we start at 7:00 or 8:00 and end at 4:00 at the latest, take a Xanax and/or Ambien and go to sleep, we'll be okay, and you rest tomorrow and all day Sunday you'll be good and drink a lot of water, we'll be good, but we won't have hours to be caught in a matrix. If we do it, I want you to call Garren and see what he has so it can really be a turnon, but if we're going to do something, the sooner the better. Did I read that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you interpret the term matrix to mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The high, being caught in the high.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you take this message to mean in terms of planning drugs for this particular freak-off?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He's saying that it will be like a brief time and he'll have time to recover.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it would be a shorter than usual freak-off?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's how I would understand it, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you understand this text message to suggest that you would take drugs, other than Xanax and Ambien at this freak-off?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sorry. Can you reword that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Typically, would you take Xanax and Ambien at the end of a freak-off?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't always, but --
MS. ESTEVAO: But the idea was it was to come down?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Something to -- yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it assumed in your communications with Mr. Combs that you would be taking more of a party drug for the actual freak-off before the freak-off started?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would assume that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And so you would assume that from this message, even though it's not explicitly said, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The way we spoke, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because that's sort of part and parcel of a freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And a party drug could include MDMA or ecstasy, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Or something even more intense, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Possibly, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you don't recall what you both took on this particular freak-off?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't.
MS. ESTEVAO: But he's expressing his desire to not be caught in a matrix, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you tell me again what a matrix would involve in the context of your experience with Mr. Combs in a freak-off.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you understand the term matrix to mean?
MS. JOHNSON: It's asked and answered.
THE COURT: True. Overruled. One question and let's move forward.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you elaborate on the term matrix?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It says, but we won't have hours to get caught in the matrix. So matrix I said is like the high and being too high where there wouldn't be any sexual -- anything happening because we'd be too high. There would be no performance.
MS. ESTEVAO: In what circumstances would you get too high? How would that happen, to get too high?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Take too much.
MS. ESTEVAO: Take too much of ecstasy or MDMA, for example?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Any drug.
MS. ESTEVAO: G, potentially, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Or ketamine?
MS. ESTEVAO: Once someone starts using a drug like MDMA, ecstasy, G, or ketamine, your judgment is impaired, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Definitely, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when your judgment is impaired from drug use, it's more likely that you're going to take more drugs, typically, right, in your experience?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's sustained. You can rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you familiar with being under the influence of those drugs?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so you know what it's like to have your mind be impaired by those drugs?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so in your experience, do you understand the effects to include being more inclined to consume more drugs?
MS. ESTEVAO: I can rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you're high on those drugs, would you be more likely to be taking more drugs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It would just depend on the situation. I don't -- is there another way we could ask it? I don't --
MS. ESTEVAO: As someone who has experienced these drugs and been under the influence of these drugs, would you say that it affects your inhibition.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I can move on from this. I'm sorry. I want to keep the exhibit up. Thank you. Can we go to the next one.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's referring to your friend Erin being in front of him. You say, where. He says, but I'm asking you what would you want to do, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So again, he's asking you for your preference, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is in part because he knows that your premiere is a big night, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it's a big deal for you to get very high before such an important night in your life, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your premiere was a big night, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was.
MS. ESTEVAO: And if you were to enter a matrix or take too many drugs, it might impact your ability to participate in the promotion for the movie, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you understood that he knew that and recognized that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, at my office, and you say, she's coming down.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, how would you want it to be since you've been thinking about it, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And by it, he's referring to the freak-off, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so he's asking you how you want it to be, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh. Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said, I have hair and makeup starting at 10:45, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's referring to your promotional activities?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, I know, that's why I was saying start ASAP so you can get rest, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's saying if we're going to do a freak-off, we have to do it soon, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's what he's saying, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you need your rest, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, do you actually need her, I'm just trying to get with her for a bit and go home.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, yes, we're in a meeting, babe, lol. Answer my other questions, referring to his questions about scheduling a freak-off, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, hello, talk to me so I can finish my meeting, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, chill with your friends, I'm check you later, I tried, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's saying you're not responding to me, and so he was sort of checking out of the conversation, so to speak, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: What questions? I said let's have fun. You're tripping and reaching and that's not cool, this is a big moment for me and it feels like its spoiled now.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're saying, I said let's have fun, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you're saying that Mr. Combs is tripping and reaching and that's not cool. What did you mean by that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He was tripping out about me not pinning back, and just that was a -- this was the way that we spoke to each other in our relationship.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were nonresponsive for some period of time and he was overreacting; is that a fair characterization?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, what, call Garren, can you do that and go get your stuff, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then he asks where you want to stay, can you see who Garren has, hello, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, yo, I hate when we're in the middle of texting and you just stop, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's saying I've been texting you about this and trying to follow up and you're not being responsive, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Which he typically did all the time, right, throughout your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It happened frequently.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you didn't respond to him, he kept contacting you over and over again until you responded, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: For big things and small things, right, it was just typical of his communication style, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And to your knowledge, he did this with other people, too, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: This was his style of communication, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, I'm waiting for him to hit me back, he didn't answer, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's referring to Garren from Cowboys 4 Angels, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then what does he ask you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Are you headed home, where are you at, can we do at your house.
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's asking multiple questions about this freak-off that you'd proposed, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: After you sent multiple explicit messages to him, right? Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He again says, hello, talk to you later, going to go into this meeting, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So he's saying, I tried texting you and now we'll have to talk later because I'm going to be unavailable, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And then what do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Kerry is here, we can't do at my house.
MS. ESTEVAO: As in you can't do the freak-off at your house, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And now it's clear that Ms. Morgan is staying at your house, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And she typically lived in LA, right? Excuse me. Withdrawn. She typically lived in New York, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And she was staying with you in LA?
MS. ESTEVAO: Did she come out for the premiere in particular?
CASANDRA VENTURA: She left before the premiere, so I think she was just visiting. I don't remember exactly.
MS. ESTEVAO: You are suggesting doing the freak-off at a hotel, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It doesn't say it here, but yeah. I didn't say we could do it at my house.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's implied in this message that the alternative to your house is the hotel, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you never did freak-offs at Mr. Combs's home, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not -- what year is this? We did it at his homes before, but I don't think at this point, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, about to head home now, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Says okay, I got Intercontinental, did you call Garren, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Which suggests that he booked the hotel room, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And set it up, right? Okay. And then he says fuchsia, do you know what that refers to?
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He again says, did you call Garren, and I am headed to your house now, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says hit me back, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, on way with Kerry, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, he sent a pic of another discrete white guy, but Skylar is avail, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you take that message to mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That Garren sent another picture of a person that was discrete from his site.
MS. ESTEVAO: And by putting it in quotation marks, are you suggesting that it was Garren who said that it's a discrete white guy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, that's a word he used.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you ask, hello with question marks, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: So now you're reaching out to him when he's being unresponsive, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Looks like it, uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, you hate when I stop responding, but now that's what you're doing, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, can we get the other guy, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, you really just want to bring another random into our situation, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's because you didn't want new escorts that you were unfamiliar with to be invited into a freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you preferred to use familiar people, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because the whole point was to keep this very secret, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, it was to keep it secret, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, in fact, you had had experiences in the past where escorts were not so discrete, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know what you're referring to.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can return to this tomorrow.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, Skylar has a family dinner at 9:00, but could come after that, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And Yuengling canceled my thing tomorrow, and then Mr. Combs says where are you, question mark, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, I wanted something new, but whatever you want, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So that's, again, him asking you what you want, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: He's asking your preference for which escort to invite, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it reads.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, my house, and he says, okay, you ready, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you send an attachment of presumably the discrete white guy, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, like for real, no. What did you mean by that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was answering for us, that no, didn't want to use that person.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, let's see at 8:30, if you don't like, all good, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, asking where are you?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you're arranging with Garren, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page?
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, that guy is sick, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm not going to ask you what you meant by that. He says, want to get Johnny, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, not really, but if that's what you want, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you're being open to different guys, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Within reason, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So not the discrete white guy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Nope.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, never mind, is there anyone else, and you say Skylar at 9:00 or Jules, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, you said you were on your way here, I rushed back, wtf. He says okay Skylar, come down, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: So this is all arranging for this freak-off that's about to happen at the Intercontinental and we've all seen the effects of it, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: I thought he said has a dinner at 9:00, and you say, I'll be right over, let's start the energy fresh, right? What did you mean by, let's start the energy fresh?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think we were going back and forth about reaching out to each other and probably disagreeing, so I just said let's start the energy fresh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs typically talked about energy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was something he talked about a lot?
CASANDRA VENTURA: True.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he wanted to often change the energy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, I've had such a great day and I intend on keeping that way?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say you were intending on keeping it that way, that included participation in this freak-off that you're planning, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled, but the witness answered the question, so you can move to the next question.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, if you don't want to, just say no, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's referring to what? Do you want to go back up?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, can you go back. Sorry. Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: How do you interpret that message?
CASANDRA VENTURA: My own message you're talking about?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Had such a great day and I intend keeping it that way.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you mean when you asked him, he could just say no?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess to the freak-off. I don't know. I'm not really sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, I'm not in a combative place, I've just been people pleasing all day and just need relaxed fun, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And by saying you just need relaxed fun, you're referring to the anticipated freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not necessarily. I felt like for me it was more about the high and hanging out with him.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the hanging out with him that you're referring to is the freak-off that you're planning, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were planning on getting high at this freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I got high at every one.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, no crazy shit, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you didn't want it to go wrong, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, all good, you just don't hear how you be talking, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, I'm at home, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was also a typical message that he would send, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The first one?
MS. ESTEVAO: The top one.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, okay babe, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says how long, hello, after you don't respond, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, calling the car.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, 10:00, he says outside.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say you'll be down in five. He suggests calling Johnny. And then he says, we can just watch and be with each other, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what he says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you interpret that to mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't really know, honestly. I would assume just watch Johnny, but that wasn't something that ever happened.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is Johnny a dancer or an escort, to your knowledge?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He was hired through a dancing company, but did what an escort does.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, we can just watch, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what he says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, and be with each other, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Suggesting he and you could just be with each other, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then he says, where you at, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, it's 10 minutes, yo, I'm out, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, I'm going to studio, will holler later, he waited for 2P min, 20 min. And you say, okay, I'll have him bring me back home, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, I'm outside, but I'm not doing this, have a great night. He says, no problem, I'll drop you off, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you're just bickering about transportation and timing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it looks like, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, I can't wait no more. And you said, nah, I'll get out and take an Uber, all good, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, call me, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please. That's the last page?
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall earlier in the conversation when you were asking Mr. Combs how he was doing because he was sick, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he had flu-like symptoms? Well, he was sick and had bodily symptoms, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. Ms. Estevao, last couple of questions. We have two minutes left.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, thank you. I'll finish up.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall the beginning of the freak-off session?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Of that particular one?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't really recall.
MS. ESTEVAO: So before you start taking drugs, you don't recall?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not really, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't recall what kind of drugs you took?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I mean, it was usually always the same kind of thing. So I would guess that's what we took, like ecstasy or MDMA.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was most likely ecstasy or MDMA based on your experience?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you ever had bad ecstasy or MDMA?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: What are the effects of bad ecstasy or MDMA?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Just makes you really sick.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you elaborate on that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I mean, I don't know -- I've -- I used to get sick all the time taking those things, so I don't really know if it was because it was bad or not or because it was good. I have no idea.
MS. ESTEVAO: The drugs that you and Mr. Combs took that day were a bad batch of MDMA, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: They were a bad batch, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I have no idea. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: No further questions.
THE COURT: Thank you, members of the jury. Again, thank you for all your close attention and hard work. We'll be back here tomorrow. Please try to be here at 9:15. I again promise you we will start at 9:30 and I will try to be less late tomorrow. As always, do not speak to each other about the case, do not look up anything about the case, and don't talk to anybody about the case. We'll see you back here before 9:30, but be here at 9:15. All rise.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Ventura. We'll see you here tomorrow. Again, no discussions with the government, and have a great evening. Everyone else may be seated.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, can I get a time check.
MS. ESTEVAO: One moment, your Honor.
THE COURT: While she's doing that, Ms. Johnson, obviously the cross is not complete, but can you give me a general time check on what you anticipate for redirect.
MS. JOHNSON: I think half an hour or less.
MR. AGNIFILO: Judge, we're going to go back and try to, now that we have one day down, see what we don't need as much. I've heard the Court loud and clear, I have. It's a critical, critical witness. And so we'll come back in the morning and I'll give the best estimate. I know all of the moving parts, but it's probably the most important witness in a very important case. So I will be mindful of all of the different factors that I'm aware of.
THE COURT: We'll address this in the morning, but the reason I ask those questions is because if we work efficiently tomorrow, and given what Ms. Johnson has said, you should have upwards of five hours on the record tomorrow, and that would give you a total of closing in on 12 hours for the cross-examination. That's why I raised it, because I wanted to make sure that if we needed to finish tomorrow, you were going to be afforded enough time. And so I just wanted to put that on your radar because given the time estimates and the math that I've done, it would seem you would have that much time. So that's perhaps a good way to think about it.
MR. AGNIFILO: I appreciate asking the government the question and then coming back to us with that added information. I will do everything I can to get as accurate a figure to the Court first thing in the morning.
THE COURT: We'll see where we are in the morning. Ms. Johnson.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, two things. First, anticipating tomorrow, we would ask that defense counsel identify for us as early as possible this evening anticipated exhibits for tomorrow so that the government can review them in advance and flag any objections, and ideally so the government can send them to Ms. Ventura's counsel in the hopes she might be able to review some tonight to make this more efficient tomorrow with the instruction that there's no coaching, but to see if she would be available to at least review some tonight.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, that seems like a good idea that would aid your cross-examination because you wouldn't have to have those breaks where Ms. Ventura is reading the text chains, assuming there are long text chains included in the materials.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's also in our interest to make sure this is done as efficiently as possible tomorrow and we will endeavor to both shorten certain exhibits and clarify with the government what those exhibits are and make sure we have appropriate conferrals, without making any promises as to timing, but we understand it will make everything more efficient.
THE COURT: This is the time. It's 5 o'clock. So when you say that you're going to furnish them to the government, let's just focus on that, you need a time. So 8:00 p.m.?
MS. ESTEVAO: We can make 8:00 p.m. work.
THE COURT: All right. 8:00 p.m. Ms. Johnson, you had a second point.
MS. JOHNSON: I did. I just had a few items to clean up with the transcripts with respect to evidence that was admitted that I think inadvertently isn't reflected in the transcript. I just want to make clear that the government admitted on direct examination with Ms. Ventura Government Exhibit B-326 A through O. It wasn't clear that the subdivisions of Government Exhibit B-326 were admitted.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. JOHNSON: I also want to make clear the subdivision B-625 A was admitted from the exhibit we were just looking at, B-625. Yesterday, I believe I read B-346 as an exhibit that was admitted and it's not reflected in the record.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. JOHNSON: One more evidentiary item. On I think Tuesday of this week we admitted Government Exhibit B-2305 and B-209. The government would move to admit those exhibits under seal as they depict the likeness of a witness who is testifying under a pseudonym.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. ESTEVAO: No objection.
THE COURT: That exhibit that you identified, give me the number again.
MS. JOHNSON: B-203 through B-205 and B-209.
THE COURT: Those exhibits will be placed under seal. Anything further, Ms. Johnson or Ms. Comey or Ms. Slavik?
MS. SLAVIK: Your Honor, just to flag for the Court that the government does intend to submit a very short letter on the Rule 611 issue later this evening.
MS. COMEY: Relatedly, I wanted to note we made arrangements for two witnesses be available to go on tomorrow after Ms. Ventura. It would be helpful to know whether we should actually have them here in the courthouse.
THE COURT: They should be ready. Who is it?
MS. COMEY: Depending on when we end, it will either be Dawn Richard or Yasin Binda, and I'm not sure which will go first. It depends on what time we finish with Ms. Ventura.
THE COURT: All right. From the defense.
MS. GERAGOS: The only thing, your Honor, is we've been conferring with Ms. Ventura's counsel about the exhibits and your Honor's order from this morning. Procedurally, would you like us to submit the redacted versions to chambers? I just want to understand what your Honor would like us to do next. I think we're --
THE COURT: Is there agreement on the redactions?
MS. GERAGOS: There's general agreement. There's one exhibit left that we need to confer about, but, generally, Ms. Ventura's counsel and I have agreed on redactions, and then I have to submit them to the government.
THE COURT: So in terms of those exhibits, whenever they're ready, they should be submitted to the Court. And just procedurally, when they are used, you'll have a copy for the witness that is unredacted and then the version that is redacted will be put into evidence or were you just going to use the redacted copy?
MS. GERAGOS: We were just going to use the redacted copy.
THE COURT: Okay. So then you'll handle that end of it and we'll have the copy submitted to chambers so that we'll have them, but then we'll see them on the screen since that's the only version that's going to be used.
MS. GERAGOS: Yes.
THE COURT: Anything further.
MS. GERAGOS: Not from us.
THE COURT: In terms of being here, there are no issues right now. So if there are going to be issues to address this the morning, then someone needs to send an email, but let's all plan on being here at 9:00 a.m. to address anything.
(Adjourned to May 16, 2025 at 9:00 a.m.)
THE COURT: * * *