CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: Good morning, Ms. Ventura.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Good morning.
MS. ESTEVAO: You and Sean Combs were in love for 11 years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: During that time you loved him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you believed that he loved you as well?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And during those 11 years you took care of him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In the ways I could, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you believed that he needed someone to take care of him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: In some ways?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In some ways I guess, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: On direct examination you used the term larger than life. Do you remember using that term?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: From what you could see to many people he was larger than life?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Not just to you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: But to you he was Sean, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's the name that you used the past two days in the courtroom, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's the name his mother gave him?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
MS. ESTEVAO: He might have used other names for other people, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, Diddy, but you called him Sean, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yesterday, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's a part of what made your relationship with him special, is that you knew the real Sean, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe I knew a real version, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, you knew the Sean that other people didn't see.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: You knew a version of him that he wouldn't let the rest of the world see?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: You knew the Sean that he didn't want anybody else to see but you?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you repeat.
MS. ESTEVAO: You knew the version of Sean that he didn't want anyone else to see but you, save the other people that were invited into this relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you rephrase that. I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: You knew of a version of him that the public didn't know, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that many people in his circle, in his world didn't know?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. That's fair to say.
MS. ESTEVAO: Even his family didn't know?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you knew and you always knew how special you were to him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I don't think I always knew.
MS. ESTEVAO: You sometimes knew.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sometimes is fair.
MS. ESTEVAO: You frequently knew.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sometimes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's why it hurt so badly when he lied to you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when he cheated on you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's why it hurt so badly when he promised to tell the truth and be faithful to you and then let you down time and again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said on direct that you were very jealous. I think insanely jealous is the phrase you used?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he gave you a lot to be jealous of, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I mean, it's all relative. Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But for 11 years you put up with that jealousy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not the whole time, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were on and off during the relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you kept coming back to him for 11 years.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I wouldn't use the word coming back.
MS. ESTEVAO: You would continue to get back together with him for 11 years.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Despite his -- imperfections his maybe not strong enough?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: His flaws, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: We are going to talk about all of those. That's because you loved him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And for those same 11 years you put up with all that because you believed that he truly loved you too?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did believe he loved me too.
MS. ESTEVAO: And because you were so in love with him, when he cheated on you it really hurt.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say not every time.
MS. ESTEVAO: I see. But you did spend a lot of time feeling very hurt during the relationship.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say in the early stages, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And I want to go back many years to the beginning of your relationship. You fell in love very quickly, right, after your 21st birthday?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. It was very quickly.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the early part of your relationship was filled with love and passion, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could we bring up for the parties and the Court Defense Exhibit 1353, please, and the witness.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recognize this communication, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't. I am just going to read it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recognize that email address at the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's your -- an old email address, I assume?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: This appears to be an email from you to Mr. Combs, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. Can I read through it?
MS. ESTEVAO: We are going to read through it.
MS. ESTEVAO: I am going to move for its admission at this point.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes, your Honor. We object to the top two messages for hearsay. They appear to be offered for their truth.
THE COURT: Response.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is offered for state of mind and effect on the listener, your Honor.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, based on the examination so far, on its face it appears to be offered for the truth.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, why don't you ask some further questions, and then we can determine whether there is a basis for admission on the grounds that you've indicated.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, can you read the first two messages.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Not in evidence.
THE COURT: That's true. Not in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: Read to yourself. Would you please read them just to yourself, Ms. Ventura.
CASANDRA VENTURA: From the top or the bottom?
MS. ESTEVAO: From the bottom. Why did you send this message, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was just communicating with him, it looks like, letting him know I was going to dinner.
MS. ESTEVAO: One moment, your Honor.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, what was going on at this time when these messages were sent?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure, honestly.
MS. ESTEVAO: What was going on in your relationship with Mr. Combs at the time these messages were sent?
CASANDRA VENTURA: This was like early in the relationship, but I'm not like specifically sure of like that date.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what sort of messages would you and Mr. Combs exchange during this time period?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Loving, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you exchange messages on a regular basis?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And would you update each other on what you were feeling and thinking at the time you sent the messages?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And would the messages that you then received from each other be read and reacted to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: I would offer it at this time.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, same objection. It's clearly being offered for the truth.
THE COURT: Overruled.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1353 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please publish to the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read the second message from the top out loud, Ms. Ventura. This is from Mr. Combs to you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: You want me to read it out loud?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes. Just the text of the message itself.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It makes me so happy that you would fly to ALT just to see me. I'm truly a lucky man. I love you, missing you. Can't wait to hold you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Now, could you read your response at the top, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm a very lucky woman. Smiley face. I'm a very lucky woman. I miss you so much. I'd fly wherever you needed me whenever. I love you. Cas.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please take this down to bring up just for the parties, the witness, and the Court Defense Exhibit 1354.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you take a look at this and just read it to yourself, Ms. Ventura.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recognize this to be an email between yourself and Mr. Combs in 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it appears to be. I'm almost done reading it.
MS. ESTEVAO: We are going to read it out loud. During that time period, would you consistently, again, send messages back and forth with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In August of 2009, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: To update each other on what was going on and what you were thinking?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you read and reacted to these emails as you received them?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. At this point.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection, your Honor, on a few bases. I don't believe Ms. Ventura has authenticated this document. The bottom -- starting from the bottom that first message has hearsay within hearsay, and then going up to the third message from the bottom and the fourth message from the bottom, and we object on hearsay grounds. That appears to be being offered for the truth.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, there are probably a few more questions to ask. You can try to address those objections.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm happy to only offer the first four messages.
MS. JOHNSON: We object to the fourth, and we would need to do a redaction prior to publishing or just zoom in on the top, but we still object to the fourth message, and Ms. Ventura needs to authenticate this document.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this accurately reflect an email between you and Mr. Combs on August 12, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From what it looks like, yes, but I haven't seen this message in a while, so I don't --
MS. ESTEVAO: Would BG new pin reflect your BlackBerry pin number? Withdrawn. Would BG -- what does BG mean to you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To me it meant baby girl.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that what Mr. Combs referred to you as sometimes?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did you correspond with Mr. Combs via BlackBerry during this time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did you correspond with him on a regular basis via BlackBerry?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you use your BlackBerry to say update each other on what you were thinking and what was going on at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you read those messages and then react to them?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
THE COURT: This portion of the exhibit will be admitted.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, we maintain our objection to the bottom email.
THE COURT: I understand.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1354 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can please publish to the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: I will read from the bottom from Mr. Combs' messages, and I would ask that you read yours. I love you so much it makes me cry and so has five Os attached to it.
CASANDRA VENTURA: You hungry pop pop?
MS. ESTEVAO: Nope. Thank you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: No prob. Let me know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You can take this down, Mr. McLeod. Please just show the parties, the Court, and the witness Defense Exhibit 1359.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, this document, does it also say BG new new pin in the from column at the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I see that, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, again, BG would refer to baby girl and that would be you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, again, would you frequently correspond on BlackBerry with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When we had BlackBerries, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: This will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1359 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the third page of this document. Second page. I'm sorry.
MS. JOHNSON: Our copy has two.
MS. ESTEVAO: I am going to read the third message from the top from pop pop. You understand that to refer to Mr. Combs, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did it make you miss me?
CASANDRA VENTURA: You want me to read the next part?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: A lot. You didn't even respond to my message.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please take this down and put up Defense Exhibit 1360.
MS. ESTEVAO: Again, this says BG new new pin. Does this accurately reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs via BlackBerry in 2010?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, we need a moment to review the document.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, we object to hearsay grounds to all the messages except the top two messages on page 1 and the last message on page 2.
THE COURT: That objection is overruled. 1360 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1360 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, we are going to read from the bottom up. Do you mind reading the BG new new pin messages.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Going to sleep now so it can be tomorrow faster and you can be home. I love you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Love my baby.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Smiley face.
MS. ESTEVAO: I love you so much it consumes my life. How did that happen.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I wonder the same thing for myself all of the time. Like who was I before we decided to be together.
MS. ESTEVAO: I never knew it could be like this. How do you have me this way.
CASANDRA VENTURA: LOL. What do you mean. I'm so happy that we fell in love.
MS. ESTEVAO: We are so in love we don't do anything else.
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's not true.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you are gonna have to work so hard, four times as hard as me, which takes a lot of time. Ms. Ventura, this exhibit is from April 4, 2010. At this point how long had you been seeing Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At this point I would say like two and a half years.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. McLeod, can you please put up Defense Exhibit 1355 just for the parties, the Court, and the witness.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this accurately reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs via BlackBerry on August 15, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: May I read it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, of course.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, this has at least three pages. Could we make sure that the witness sees all three.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. McLeod.
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura, if you need to see the next page, you can just let Ms. Estevao know.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Is there another page, or is that it? Was this all of the pages? Because I was supposed to read it this way.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe there should be a third page, Mr. McLeod. Thank you. A. Sorry. I was confused. That's all.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is the government still reviewing?
THE COURT: I think the witness is still reviewing. Ms. Ventura, when you are finished looking at it --
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think I'm good.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs on August 15, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks that way, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: This exhibit will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1355 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Turning to page 3, the second from the top beginning with amazing, can you read that one.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Amazing. I love you so much. It made me feel like I can't wait until we don't care anymore. LOL.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you mean by, until we don't care anymore?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Honestly, I don't know. I haven't seen this message in a while, but we definitely were not open about our relationship for the beginning part, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go down to the second from the bottom, beginning with the subject line and then the second from the bottom: That says: Read my last tweet. You say. OMG. Pop pop. Can I respond or write something about my man? Does that help you -- does it give context for what you meant by, I can't wait until we don't care anymore?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. It's still kind of the same meaning to me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Go ahead.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was about a post, right, so I'm looking.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does it suggest that you're looking forward to being public with your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That I can agree with, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because at that time it was still relatively secret, is that right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In 2009, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: How long had you been together with Mr. Combs at that point?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think, like I said, it was about two, two and a half years by now, by August.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the first page, please, the top three lines, top three messages.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say the third message from the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Pop pop, I really miss you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: Me too baby. Damn. I can't wait till I see you. What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Me too.
MS. ESTEVAO: While you were seeing Mr. Combs for the duration of your relationship, did he frequently travel?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: How frequently was he traveling, generally?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Weekly, I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: And were you traveling pretty frequently as well?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Frequently. Not as much as him.
MS. ESTEVAO: Even though you were in a relationship with each other you weren't together all the time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, you often had long breaks from each other when you didn't get to see each other, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he sometimes would have to travel for long periods of time when he was doing something for work.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the same for you. If you were going to film elsewhere or you had some event, you would not be together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please bring up Defense Exhibit 1364 just for the parties, the Court, and the witness.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs via BlackBerry on April 22, 2010?
CASANDRA VENTURA: May I read it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I read it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does it reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1364 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1364 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish to the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please read your message to Mr. Combs at the bottom.
CASANDRA VENTURA: So you hung up. It's like I need to have something written out to say to you with no breathing room or you'll get mad at me and hang up. I haven't talked to you at all. I know you can take three minutes out of your day to talk to me, and you don't even try. You're in too much of a rush to get me off the phone. That's not being in a relationship with somebody that you love and are in love with. I'm really hurt by the way you deal with me. I don't need your money. I need some attention. I am thankful, but I can pay for these things myself.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe you testified on direct examination that you frequently wanted more time with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was important to you to get your special time with him.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was common for lots of people to want to spend time with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was in high demand, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why is that? Why did people want to spend so much time with him?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Speculation.
THE COURT: You can rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why did you want to spend so much time with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I wanted to spend so much time with him, I mean at this point in 2010, because I had fallen in love with him and cared about him very much.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you said in your direct testimony that he was a larger-than-life figure or personality, what did you mean by that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Larger than life. I mean, he's a charismatic, like big personality that everyone really loved, so larger than life would be that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. And you testified that you were in love with him and wanted to make him happy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What about him made you fall in love with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I haven't thought about it in a while. The beginning of the relationship was really -- I kind of spoke about it already. It was really fast and fast paced, scary, but the more time I spent with him and got to know him it was just -- his really personality, at least what I thought was his really personality came out, and I liked who that was.
MS. ESTEVAO: What about it did you like?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Just very sweet, attentive, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You have repeatedly testified on direct that you loved him and therefore wanted to make him happy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you didn't want him to think that you thought -- withdrawn. You testified that you were afraid that he would find someone else if you did not agree to have sex with him in the way that he wanted, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection, your Honor. That misstates her testimony.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified that you were afraid -- withdrawn. You testified -- you stated when you really care about somebody and you're in love with them you don't want to disappoint them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that reflected how you felt at the time with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified, I wanted to make him happy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified, I didn't want him to think that I thought anything bad of him for it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you mean by that?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection, your Honor. Can we just clarify what it is in that message, and a time period.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's referring to freakoffs. I can repeat it.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were asked: Why did you agree to try a freakoff? You answered: I wanted to make him happy. I was in a really significantly mature relationship that I don't think I was prepared for, now that I look at it, but, yeah, I loved him. I didn't him to think that I thought anything bad of him for it. I just wanted to make him happy. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's how you felt at the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At the time I wanted to make him happy, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also testified about a communication that you had with him where you said: I love you so much. You make me a better woman, daughter, sister, person. I hope you always know how much I love you and appreciate you. Right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection, your Honor. Can we get a time period for that quote?
THE COURT: No. Overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Isn't it true that you testified that you had previously told him: I love you so much. You make me a better woman, daughter, sister, person. I hope you always know how much I love and appreciate you. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I definitely wrote these messages, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's how you felt at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Whatever time that was, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: We will get there, I'm sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also wrote: You can't wait until we have a baby of our own to celebrate Father's Day. I love you with all my heart. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were asked why you sent that message and you said, because I loved him and it was Father's Day.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you knew he would appreciate that as a father.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I thought so.
MS. ESTEVAO: You knew that he had his six children at the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You also testified that you wanted to be around him, and you wanted to be around him for the same reasons as everyone else at the time, right? That's what you said yesterday.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said, it's just this exciting -- he's just this exciting, entertaining, fun guy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup. I'm sure I said that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's how you felt?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said, it felt special because not a lot of people got that kind of time with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that you really fell in love with him, and you were just like a little shadow for a little while.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You also testified that it was a very different relationship from any other relationship you had had before, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, it was, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was exciting?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was much different.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was passionate?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There was passion, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it opened up your world tremendously, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Hmm. There is not really a yes-or-no answer to that one for me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did it open up your world?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In a different way, yeah, I'll say that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is it fair to say that he trusted you with his secrets?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think that's fair to say.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that that meant that you held a special place in his heart?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that you wanted to keep that trust.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And earn that trust.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that I wanted to earn it.
MS. ESTEVAO: You did earn it.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did earn it, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So to make him happy you told him that you wanted to do freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. There is a lot more to that.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sure we will get there.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up defense Exhibit 1159 just for the parties, the Court, and the witness.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, after you have taken a look, can you tell me if that reflects a conversation between you and Mr. Combs on August 5, 2009.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission. Excuse me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect a conversation between you and Mr. Combs via BlackBerry on August 5, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like a real conversation, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1159 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1159 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we begin reading, and I will be Mr. Combs, the fourth message from the bottom and go backwards.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Would that be at the me too?
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll begin. I miss you already.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Me too.
MS. ESTEVAO: When do you wanna freak off, LOL?
CASANDRA VENTURA: LOL. I am just going up to change and put my ring in. I just picked it up. I'm always ready to freak off. LOLOL.
MS. ESTEVAO: Let's just pause there. When you say, I'm always ready to freak off, this was sent on August 5, 2009, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how long had you been dating Mr. Combs at this point?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Almost two years.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you have already had freakoffs before this, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll continue reading. You tell me the day. You choose.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It can be whenever.
MS. ESTEVAO: Name the night.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I feel like the weekend, like a Friday night would be best because we want -- we'd want time to recover for work or the work week, right. This upcoming weekend the 8th is the only one I have until the 28th.
MS. ESTEVAO: OK. I'm on it.
CASANDRA VENTURA: LOL. OK. But if you can't, we can always do it during the week. You know that doesn't matter to me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pause.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say we know that doesn't matter to me, you're saying that you understand that Mr. Combs knows that you don't mind whether or not it's on a weekend or during the week, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: OK. Then Mr. Combs says: Friday it is. I wish we could get Julz here.
CASANDRA VENTURA: LOL. Maybe we could. We don't know him that well, though.
MS. ESTEVAO: You want to call him and feel him out?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I can do that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Call him now, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: You want me to make you a bowl?
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you understand make you bowl to mean?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Some food.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was this entire text message exchange kind of typical of your communications with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Somewhat typical, one of the conversations.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up for the parties, the Court, and the witness Defense Exhibit 1162.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs on August 7, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks as such.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: We object to hearsay.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1162 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, I am not going to ask you to read this one out loud, but is it fair to say that you are sending Mr. Combs an explicit text message?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that this was sent on August 7, 2009, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Which is two days after the last message that we read about how you always were ready to freak off, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says -- after the explicit message, he says: I can't wait to watch you. I want you to get real hot. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: Me too. I just want it to be uncontrollable. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up Defense Exhibit 1164.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs on August 7, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It appears to be.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: Same objection.
THE COURT: Same objection?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes. Based on the questioning on the last exhibit, we think that is a valid objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Certainly not for its truth, your Honor.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1164 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish for the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: I am not going to read this explicit message, Ms. Ventura, but fair to say that it's an extremely explicit message sent by you to Mr. Combs on August 7, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, again, August 7, 2009 is two days after you and Mr. Combs were discussing planning a freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. That's what it says.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it's a fair interpretation to assume that this was an explicit message related to the anticipated freakoff, correct?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up Defense Exhibit 1165 for the parties, Court, and the witness.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, could we take a brief 10-minute recess?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
THE COURT: Members of the jury, we will be back in 10 minutes. All rise.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: We will come back in 10 minutes. Ms. Ventura, during the break you are not allowed to have any communications with anyone on the government side.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Thank you.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura just needed a short break, which is fine. If anyone else needs a break, that's fine as well. Since this is going to be a recurring issue as to these text message exchanges, my understanding is, Ms. Estevao, that these are admissible and not being presented for an improper purpose because they go either to effect on the listener or to the declarant's state of mind. Is that correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: That's correct.
THE COURT: That's what I had understood. Ms. Johnson, do you have a response? Because I anticipate that we will see a lot more text messages that go to that, meaning that any time the statements are being introduced -- for instance, just to give an example, willingness or eagerness to engage in a freakoff or statements of love, all of which, Ms. Estevao at least is saying, fall within the exception for state of mind or effect on the person receiving that message.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I don't believe that the questioning is that precise. I believe that the questioning that's been asked so far is being used to prove that the truthful statement is being used to suggest that Ms. Ventura wanted to do this, and all of these messages are being offered for their truth and not for the limited purpose of her state of mind or the effect on who was hearing them. And to the extent that these messages are being admitted for that limited purpose, we again request a limiting instruction for all of these messages so that the jury is not confused and is able to understand the limited purpose --
THE COURT: What is the other purpose? Meaning that when there is a message that says, for instance, I love you, what is the other purpose? Meaning, doesn't that just go to the declarant's state of mind and what is being communicated to the person receiving that message? Just to give that example, just so I'm understanding the objection, what is the other improper purpose that the jury could misunderstand the evidence being used for?
MS. JOHNSON: In that example it's being -- the improper purpose is that he in fact loves her. It's being used to prove that fact, not that it's being used to prove that at the time Ms. Ventura thought that he loved her or understood, based on what he said, that he loved her. The questioning is suggesting that he in fact loved her and that is the distinction.
THE COURT: What's the distinction between the fact that he loved her or the love as a state of mind?
MS. JOHNSON: The fact that he loved her is the improper use of this material. That's being offered for its truth. If it's being offered just to show that Ms. Ventura at the time thought that he loved her, that is coming in for its state of mind, and in that case we would request that the jury be instructed accordingly. But the questioning --
THE COURT: I get it. Ms. Estevao, you have heard the objection. I think there is probably some perhaps fine tuning of some of the questions that would make sure that it's understood why you're trying to introduce these exhibits with the questioning.
MS. ESTEVAO: I can ask further questions about these exhibits. I was trying to keep it relatively brief.
THE COURT: I don't think Ms. Johnson is requesting a higher volume of questions. I think she is asking for the questions to be perhaps phrased a little bit differently so it isolates the reason why you believe these exhibits would be admissible in the first place, meaning if you are going to either state of mind or effect on the listener, this is what you told him, or this is what he received from the message you were sending, things of that nature. I'm not trying to curate your questions. I'm the go-between between the parties.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll do my best. You will make sure I'm staying within the rules.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, may I add one additional. I think really incurring it into the time period is important because the state-of-mind exception is about the contemporaneous state of mind when this message was sent. It is not about the state of mind writ large over a period of years, which is what this questioning is suggesting at times.
(Continued on next page)
MS. ESTEVAO: Your Honor, 803.3 is an exception to hearsay so that it does come in for its truth.
MS. JOHNSON: As to in that moment.
THE COURT: As to the timing issue, there were perhaps, as to the last round of questions, I believe that the time was highlighted. The time is apparent in the exhibits being shown to the jury. You objected a couple times for that reason. If you have further issues that come up in the questioning, you can raise the objection and I'll, as I often do, ask Ms. Estevao to rephrase her question where appropriate. So we'll come back in five minutes.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Let's have Ms. Ventura back.
(Witness present)
THE COURT: Let's get our jury.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, when you're ready, you may proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe we were on defense exhibit 1165, and I move it for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: Exhibit 1165 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1165 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish for the jury.
BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, this exchange begins with the subject, what you thinking about, from Mr. Combs to you, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then you respond with an extremely explicit message in response?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you responded on August 7th, 2009, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And August 7, 2009, again, is two days after the discussion with Mr. Combs about planning a freak-off, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs responds and sends a message to you, saying, I can't wait, that's why I wanna see, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you received that message, that's why I wanna see, did you interpret that as him talking about in the context of a freak-off?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I would have thought we were talking about a freak-off.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how did you reply at the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I can't wait either.
MS. ESTEVAO: That was on August 7, 2009, this was all on the same day, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: In anticipation of the freak-off that you were going to do with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up for the witness, parties, and the Court defense exhibit 1166.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a BlackBerry communication between you and Mr. Combs on August 7, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm just reading through it. Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: What's the exhibit number?
MS. ESTEVAO: 1166.
THE COURT: 1166 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1166 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Beginning at the bottom, Mr. Combs sends you a message with the subject line, I'm so horny, on August 7, 2009, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you received that message, and in response, what did you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Omg. I was about to text you the same thing.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he replied saying, how you feeling, talk to me, you're supposed to be seducing me all day, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I'm just looking at the timestamps. The bottom one says 7:49. We were just in different places.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're reading it the same way I am?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so. From the bottom up, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I just wanted to make sure I wasn't --
THE COURT: Let's get a question.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, lol, sorry, I'm nervous. I feel like I wanna fuck, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, that's what it says.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up for the witness, the Court, and the parties defense exhibit 1167.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a communication via BlackBerry between you and Mr. Combs on August 7, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like one, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, I'm so horny, I can't concentrate, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. It's not in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: I apologize. Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1167 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1167 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish for the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, in the subject line, I'm so horny, I can't concentrate, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you say in response after receiving that message?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It says, so what do we want to do? I'm going to Duane Reade to grab candles and I'm going home to pack us a bag. Do you want any reg clothes btw or just sweats. Then I can go check in and set up the room. I'll eat, take my vitamins lol and get ready before I leave the house. Just want to know what you're thinking.
MS. ESTEVAO: So this reflects your response to him indicating that you are going to set up a room for a freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please put up defense exhibit 1177 just for the parties, Court, and witness.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a BlackBerry communication between you and Mr. Combs on August 18, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like it, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1177 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1177 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, can you read the bottom message from you from BG new pin.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I just deleted our little vid to this off of my camera. It was so dope.
MS. ESTEVAO: And does that refer to a video of a freak-off with you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you have taken any other videos with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In response to that message, Mr. Combs says, Imma do it again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does that suggest you to that he was referring to taking another video with you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would think so. I just don't know what we're talking about exactly.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Speculation.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, you can move on.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, when you took videos with Mr. Combs on your devices, you testified on direct that you typically deleted them, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The sexual videos, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes. And this message suggests your deletion of a video off of your camera, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: In response to his message, you asked, do you have anymore pills on you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: What was that referring to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Again, I'm not sure which kind of pills, but -- yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: What kind of pills were you taking around this time in 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Around this time, I was taking opiates.
MS. ESTEVAO: What kind of opiates?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know specifically on this date which ones, but Norco was one that I mentioned.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was also taking opiates at this time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I don't know how much, like, I don't know what his intake was then, but yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But the message suggests that you're asking if he has any pills on him that you could have, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And going back to the videos, you testified on direct about deleting videos that were in your possession, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And by recording them on your devices, it gave you the capability of deleting them, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: If I saw them, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: At a certain point in your relationship, you insisted on recording them on your device so that you could delete them, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Would you want to record them on your device so you could delete them?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't want them to be recorded at all.
MS. ESTEVAO: If they were going to be recorded, you'd prefer that they would be on your device?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: In some of the videos, did Mr. Combs appear in them, as well?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Before we leave this exhibit, turning to the bottom, you wrote, it was so dope, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's referring to a little vid on your camera, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Could we please put up defense exhibit 1179.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a BlackBerry communication between you and Mr. Combs on December 8th, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm going to read through it first. I've read it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect a communication between you and Mr. Combs on December 8th, 2009?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember it, but it appears to be, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish for the jury.
THE COURT: 1179 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1179 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry, your Honor.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, I'll read Mr. Combs's initial message to you, subject line. The things I want to do for you and to you, I want to be nasty for you, I want to do what you want me to do, I want to make you cum more than you've ever came. And in the text he says, I want you to feel safe to let go. Can you begin reading your response. We'll take it one line at a time.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I like that. I want it and I want to give you the same. I just think that I have to trust you beyond it just being sexual. Do you know what I mean? In order to be more open with the things we do in bed, I need to feel safe like home, like this is my husband and this is the only man that will ever have this aggressive sexual side of me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pause there. In this message, you're showing that you feel two ways about the freak-offs with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the hesitancy that it reflects relates to the fact that you want him to be the only one that he's doing these things with? Withdrawn. It reflects that your acceptance of doing freak-offs with him is that it's like home, like this is my husband, and this is the only man that will ever have this aggressive sexual side of me, right? Am I reading that correctly?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. I think you need to rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you understand this message to reflect feeling two ways about freak-offs? Would it help to read the rest of the message first?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: The last time was a mistake, but since has made me feel a little dirty and grimy as opposed to sensual and spontaneous. That's the only reason why I go back and forth in my mind with wanting and not wanting to do it. When we used to freak-off when we were so in love, there were no questions asked, it felt right, like it literally made sense for the next step in our sex life together. I get nervous that I'm just becoming the girlfriend that you get your fantasies off with and that's it. I don't get the other part... anymore at least. When you sent that message, were you afraid that Mr. Combs was only seeing you for sex in this way and that you were only fulfilling that part of his sex life?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Again, I don't, like, remember this message specifically, but the end of it sounds like that, yeah, like I was worried about that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that your hesitancy was that you were afraid that you would just become the girlfriend to get his fantasies off with, right, that you wouldn't be his true full girlfriend?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's a way to look at it, I guess, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say that you go back and forth in your mind with wanting and not wanting to do it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say that's the only reason why I go back and forth in my mind, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says in the message, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because at the time you were afraid that you were being treated as someone who could just get his fantasies off with, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That was a concern.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was in December 2009 after you had been seeing him for two years?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you still were not public in your relationship with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And so it was a fear that you would never be his public girlfriend, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess that was something that was thought about. It wasn't a huge fear. It was kind of an understanding that we had more so.
MS. ESTEVAO: By doing these freak-offs with him in the first couple of years of your relationship, was that a defining feature of your relationship with him, doing these freak-offs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: By defining, what do you mean?
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it an important part of your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It became a very -- I don't know if important would be the word, but integral part of our relationship early on.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wanted your relationship to develop more, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this message was sent to him by you, correct, via BlackBerry?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The longer part of the message was, yeah, was me.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is also in response to Mr. Combs saying, I want to do what you want me to do, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this reflects your open communication with him about how you felt, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say.
MS. ESTEVAO: It appears to reflect some deep thought about your relationship and your perspective on freak-offs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you felt safe sending him this message knowing that -- withdrawn. You felt comfortable sending him this message, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, at this time, I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'd like to go back to the very beginning of your relationship. I know we're already two years in. You testified that it began, your romantic intimate relationship with him began at your 21st birthday party when he kissed you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sort of, yeah, in a way.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified he kissed you at your 21st birthday party, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was the first time you kissed each other?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: At that time you were a very successful 21-year-old, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was trying, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your 21st birthday party was at a club in Las Vegas?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe there were other celebrities there in attendance?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There were.
MS. ESTEVAO: Like who?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The actual party?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yeah.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sean was there, and he brought Dallas Austin, he brought Britney Spears. I think those were the two people that stand out to me.
MS. ESTEVAO: How was a 21-year-old able to attract such celebrities to her birthday party in Las Vegas?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That was all him, yeah. I didn't know them.
MS. ESTEVAO: What accomplishments had you already achieved by the time you were 21?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Wow. I successfully put out my first album by then. That was a big deal for me.
MS. ESTEVAO: How successful was that album?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It did well, I think. We have a plaque.
MS. ESTEVAO: Fair to say that you were a celebrity in your own right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's fair to say, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you had very popular songs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had some, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: That were well known at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And people wanted to know you and get to know you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you'd been modeling for some time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you're very beautiful and charming?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can I show the witness and the parties and the Court defense exhibit 1380.
MS. ESTEVAO: So by the time you were 21 years old, you'd been a musician for about how long?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Like three years.
MS. ESTEVAO: Three years?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did you have a manager?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who was your manager?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At that time, it was a man named Ed Woods.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you have other people that worked for you on your team?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had people from his management office. It was Casablanca Records, it was Tommy Mottola's company and the people that worked at that office.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who's Tommy Mottola?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He's a really popular old school music exec.
MS. ESTEVAO: He's well known?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think he's pretty well known, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: What was your financial situation as a 21-year-old having a successful album out?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At that time, it wasn't so much the album. I had been modeling for a while, so I saved up money from that. Did a lot of commercial catalog-type stuff. But I was doing well.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you able to have an apartment in Manhattan?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup, my own place.
MS. ESTEVAO: And pay for your own clothes and goods?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it Tommy Mottola who introduced you to Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I met Sean through a producer that I was signed to.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who was that producer?
CASANDRA VENTURA: His name was Ryan Leslie.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who was Ryan Leslie?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He's a producer, musician, writer. I met him when I moved to New York and we dated for about three years.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Ryan Leslie is a well known producer, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'd say in the industry he's well known, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the time, he was well known?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, for sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: People knew who he and Tommy Mottola were and they were important people in the industry?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess you could say that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were an up and coming star, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess you could say that.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were young and had a successful album and people were excited about your prospects, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember, you testified yesterday that after you were signed to Bad Boy Records -- so when you were signed to Bad Boy Records, you were still in a plutonic relationship with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that he looked out for me, I had some rough performances, so he had my back through that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What performances are you talking about?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I had one specific television performance for BET, a show called 106 & Park that used to do a countdown of all, like, the top records at that point. Yeah, it did not go well for me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it live or prerecorded?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was prerecorded. Still somehow ended up like that, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how did Mr. Combs have your back in that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: After it happened, I spoke to him about it and we did like a YouTube video where he kind of said everybody makes mistakes and, you know, we're moving on from it, Cassie's moving on from it.
MS. ESTEVAO: What happened during the performance?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Oh, it was just bad. Couldn't hear myself. Just didn't sound good.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what was the general public's reaction to that performance?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Everybody recognizes --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: What feedback did you receive about that performance?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That it wasn't great, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So it must have meant a lot that Mr. Combs supported you through all of that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It did.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you just said that prior to your relationship with Mr. Combs, you were in a relationship with Mr. Leslie, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how much older than you was Mr. Leslie?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe 10 years older.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when did you start dating him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When I was 19. 18, 19.
MS. ESTEVAO: How old were you when you started dating him. Oh, I'm sorry. When you were 18 or 19. And you testified that you took a trip with Mr. Combs in Miami after your 21st birthday, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wanted to spend the weekend together, so you came up with a flyer, I believe you said?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't come up with the flyer, but the flyer did happen, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In anticipation of your trip to Miami, there was a flyer that was made, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that flyer suggested that there was a club appearance for you in Miami, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the purpose of that flyer was to give the impression that you had a professional reason to go to Miami, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the reason for that was because you were still dating Mr. Leslie, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: So that he wouldn't be suspicious of you going to Miami?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: When, in fact, you were spending the time with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your friends also went on this trip to Miami with you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: One of my girlfriends, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who was that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Kerry Morgan.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how long have you known and been friends with Ms. Morgan?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, we are no longer close, but we remained friends. We met I want to say early teens, 14, 15. Yeah, we were good friends for like 17 years.
MS. ESTEVAO: So Mr. Leslie doesn't know that you're on this trip to Miami, and you go to Miami with Mr. Combs and Ms. Morgan, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not that the detail matters, but I think he knew I was going to Miami, he knew I was going away.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you dated Mr. Leslie for three years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: About.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was relatively serious?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, I think you had a tattoo of his initials on your body, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that wasn't your only tattoo at the time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: How many tattoos did you have?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled. But let's try to keep it moving along.
MS. ESTEVAO: How many tattoos did you have?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At what point?
MS. ESTEVAO: By the time you met Mr. Combs.
CASANDRA VENTURA: By the time I met him, I probably had three, two or three.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you have one on your forearm?
CASANDRA VENTURA: On the inside of my foreman, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did that one say or does it say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It says no regrets.
MS. ESTEVAO: No regrets?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So because you'd spent three years with Mr. Leslie, when you started dating Mr. Combs, it wasn't the first time you had been dating an older man, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Second, but yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that this weekend in Miami was the first time that you and Mr. Combs had intercourse, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified that after this trip to Miami, that Mr. Combs was the person who introduced you to the idea of oral sex, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That actually happened before that trip.
MS. ESTEVAO: Oh, before the trip?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you were seeing him at hotels in New York, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And presumably you were seeing him in hotels in New York because you were still dating Mr. Leslie?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That was part of it.
MS. ESTEVAO: When Mr. Combs invited you to the hotel after he'd kissed you at your 21st birthday party, you understood that the invitation implied that he wanted to have a sexual relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sorry. I just got a little lost. If you could repeat it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Sure. When he invited you to his hotel room, it implied to you that he wanted to have a sexual relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Which point is this? Sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Between your 21st birthday party and the Miami trip.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that that makes sense timing-wise, chronologically.
MS. ESTEVAO: When did he invite you to hotel rooms in New York?
CASANDRA VENTURA: This was prior to the Miami trip.
MS. ESTEVAO: At that point when he invited you to his hotel room, did you understand that he was inviting a sexual relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember, honestly. I was definitely getting to know him, though.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you remember that that's when you were introduced to the idea of oral sex, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that that wasn't something, as you testified, you understood or did at that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that he was the one who taught you how, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up for the parties, the Court, and the witness Defendant's Exhibit 1351.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, could you please take a look at this and tell me when you're ready.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect an email between you and Mr. Combs on October 14, 2007?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1351 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1351 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish for the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read from this or would you prefer if I read it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: You can read it, I can also read it. It's just -- it's making me giggle because it's from 2007.
MS. ESTEVAO: I know. We're taking you back.
CASANDRA VENTURA: You can do it, though.
MS. ESTEVAO: We've only really had one week of each other just together and I can say that it's been the best and worst. I've never felt so loved, safe, and empowered since we've come together. When I'm with you, I feel like I'm your woman and no one else's. I feel protected when I'm in your arms and so comfortable that I can sleep and not worry about anything. You are one of the sweetest, most sincere people I've met in a long time and I cannot express enough how grateful I am that you've chosen to be a part of my life. I don't want to rush things, but I can't help but sit with you and dream up a beautiful future together. Who knew I'd fall so fast? You meek me feel like I can do anything... and that's real. On the other hand, you're constantly weary of me... I'm sneaky. I never seem to make the right decisions to you, I'm a spoiled brat, I'm dramatic, disrespectful, and for some reason, you just don't trust me.
It always goes back to well maybe Kerry would have been the better one to go after since I've witnessed more than once you realizing that she is way better fitting for you than I am. It's hard for me to handle that as I feel like I have given so much of myself in the short time, but whatever, I can take it. I'm guessing there will always being something negative. I don't know. I really don't. I'm hurt that you think that I'm a malicious person. The dinner I went to last night was definitely at bad timing, but it had been planned before all of the drama and things had to be handled just like you have to handle your business. I never step on your toes when it comes to handling yours. I'm about to get on this plane and I'm sad, mad, frustrated and hurt that you just don't feel like I'm the right one. I really do love you, and I hope to just be able to learn what it is you want in a woman and give it to you. You're very important to me, I hope you know that.x Ca$. There's a lot in this message, right, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There sure is, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I know there's a lot in here and we can take it one at a time or you can tell me what you think you were trying to convey at this point.
CASANDRA VENTURA: At this point, it was very, very early. I don't know. I'm just reading it like it's a journal entry.
MS. ESTEVAO: It does appear to be journal-like, doesn't it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Letting it all out. Do you have any questions for me first?
MS. ESTEVAO: Let me put it this way: your relationship with Mr. Combs was complicated from the very beginning, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, pretty much the beginning.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was complicated by your relationship with Mr. Leslie, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. That ended kind of quickly, though.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you think you meant by saying, I'm sneaky?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Hmm. Probably that.
MS. ESTEVAO: You think it probably related to your sneakiness with your cheating on Mr. Leslie?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Could have been. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you refer to the dinner you went to the night before being bad timing, do you know what that was about?
MS. ESTEVAO: This message reflects pretty open and honest communication from you to Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, it was usually like a one-way street when it came to messages like this.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were honest with him and he wasn't necessarily always honest back?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know he wasn't honest, just, I put a lot in there.
MS. ESTEVAO: So maybe not honest so much as you were open with your feelings and you sent him messages that reflected those messages more than he did, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this message also suggests that his relationship with you was complicated by his relationship with Kim Porter, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on the time --
CASANDRA VENTURA: On this message?
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on the date of October 14, 2007, was he still seeing Kim Porter at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I actually don't know. I don't know what the status of their relationship was then.
MS. ESTEVAO: This message suggests that you are hoping to have more of a relationship with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're dreaming up a beautiful future together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you also discuss your friend Kerry Morgan in this, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you think that Mr. Combs had an attraction to Kerry Morgan, Ms. Morgan?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There was a point in the very beginning. But, again, I don't remember, like, ever talking about it like this, so --
MS. ESTEVAO: Did that complication carry on in your relationship?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not really. Kerry just was always with us for a while.
MS. ESTEVAO: She was in your friend group, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, she was my closest friend.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this also suggests that you very quickly fell in love with Mr. Combs, right? This is just a few weeks after your 21st birthday party.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'd like to start talking about freak-offs a little bit.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: On your direct examination you told us that at least in the beginning, you disguised your appearance, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you were meeting someone new, you also disguised your appearance, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Sometimes you wore a wig?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: In the beginning, you had masquerade masks?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is because Mr. Combs and you were well known and recognizable, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That was a main reason, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wanted to be discrete, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why did you want to be discrete?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The encounter itself was pretty crazy. I mean, I really followed his lead on that because I never had done it before.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is it fair to say that you didn't want anyone to know?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, definitely did not want anyone to know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it your understanding that Mr. Combs didn't want anyone to know either, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's my understanding, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You also testified on direct that you feared for your career if tapes were released, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because that would have been embarrassing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Totally.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs is also in those videos, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Some of them I'm sure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your lawsuit in November 2023 that you testified about on direct, that was the first time that the term freak-off ever became public, right, so far as you know?
CASANDRA VENTURA: So far as I know, right.
MS. ESTEVAO: The general public did not know about your --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: I think there's a rephrasing that can be done there.
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on your understanding until November 2023, you were not aware of other people knowing about the freak-offs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Besides the participants I guess, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You mentioned on direct examination that you feared that the release of any explicit tapes would ruin your career, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: From your perspective, what happened to Mr. Combs's career after your lawsuit?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From my perspective?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. A. Sorry. Can you repeat.
MS. ESTEVAO: From your perspective, what happened to Mr. Combs's career after you filed that lawsuit?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's a lot.
MS. ESTEVAO: Fair to say that his career was ruined?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on your understanding?
MS. JOHNSON: It calls for hearsay and speculation.
THE COURT: Objection is overruled. Ms. Estevao, you can re-ask the question.
MS. ESTEVAO: When your lawsuit was publicized in November 2023, you understood that his career was ruined at that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I could understand that, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on everything that you heard after your lawsuit?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we put up Defense Exhibit 1007 for the parties, Court, and witness.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, this exhibit is 14 pages long. If the witness would like to read it, could we pass up a paper copy?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this reflect a text communication between you and Mr. Combs on June -- we will see the time stamps between July 29, 2012 and July 31, 2012.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, it looks like a communication.
MS. ESTEVAO: And I believe this encompasses a large part of Government Exhibit 346. Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: Exhibit 1007 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1007 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe that some of this was read during your direct testimony, but not all of it. Can we begin, I'll be Mr. Combs halfway down the page. What you want to do tonight. Can you read the blue bubbles.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup. I don't know. What are the options. Am I meeting you in the Hamptons or will we be in the city?
MS. ESTEVAO: In city. Whatever your heart desires.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, I get in kind of late. Hmm.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can just go to bed. You'll probably be tired.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I doubt that. I am going to sleep on the plane. LOL.
MS. ESTEVAO: So what you want to do, woman. And, no, I'm not asking you to FO. I want to know what you want to do.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Get something to eat, smoke, take a walk.
MS. ESTEVAO: Debbie Cotta has a party tonight. I'm horny as fuck also. By the way and please sleep on the plane. Smiley face. And it looks like I have off tomorrow and I need some Valium, which is there is a pack in my top drawer. Hello?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Shit, I'm already down the hill. I'll go back up. I'm at the beauty store. OK. Let's go out and have some carefree fun. Don't tell her I'm coming. I want to surprise you if we go. I'll go get the Valium when Greg comes to get me. I really need to go pack. He comes in one hour and haven't even started packing yet.
MS. ESTEVAO: We will play it by ear. Don't worry about Valium if it's an extra move. I'm at apartment now. When are you on your period? And what's care free fun?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm skipping it. Just taking it as it comes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you on it now?
MS. ESTEVAO: Good. Are you horny?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: How horny? What you be thinking about when you're horny?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think about you on top of me and inside of me. The way you look at me and talk to me like that. I love looking up at you and hearing you moan.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you don't ever want to read the message, I can read it for you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: You like it when I moan. LOL. Imma moan more just for you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I love it. LOL. That's really what I think about. I love the way you talk to me when you're on top. I'm sorry I wasn't able to get your things.
MS. ESTEVAO: One of my favorite times is when we FO'd, and then we made love after that. I also liked it when we make love before and then just was in next room. Then he came in and I blindfolded you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I liked those times. I love when we make love after. The last time was so good. We are at my place. I came so hard for so long.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can stop there. The so has lots of Os following it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're talking about a freakoff that you had?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We are talking about a freakoff. I'm talking about us making love after.
MS. ESTEVAO: And often during a session of a freakoff you would make love with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Afterwards, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in this message you're telling him that you love it when you make love with him during that freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: With him, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's also talking about one of his favorite times when you had a freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I think.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he also loved it when you made love after, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: He also told you that he loved it when he made love with you after, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Before that, when you're discussing your period, Mr. Combs is asking you when you're on your period, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's asking you that in the context of planning to meet up to have sex, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, it looks like that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And presumably he's -- withdrawn. And you tell him that you're skipping your period, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you're telling him that so that you can plan a freakoff, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know exactly what I was thinking then, but probably, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: In the context of a conversation about planning a freakoff you're telling him when your period is, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we skip to page 11, please. I'm sorry. Page 10.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: I want you to tell me a new fantasy of how you want it next time. Would Dave turn you on? And you say: I don't know. I haven't even had time to think about it. I've been trying to think about you with a girl to get into it, and I think I'm starting to fantasize about that. That's what you say, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's what you told Mr. Combs on July 29, 2012, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And prior to this -- withdrawn. Do you recall having conversations with Mr. Combs about you watching him with a female?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It happened, but not often.
MS. ESTEVAO: The discussions or the instances?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Both.
MS. ESTEVAO: About how many times would you say it happened, actually watching him have sex with a woman?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Two or three times, maybe four.
MS. ESTEVAO: And about how many times had he proposed it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Had he proposed it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: He brought it up I don't know -- I don't have like a number. He brought it up frequently enough.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was in the context of something that he referred to as a swinger's lifestyle?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe you testified about this on your direct examination, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: That he understood that the freakoffs were --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall having conversations with Mr. Combs about the swinger's lifestyle?
MS. ESTEVAO: And based on those conversations -- withdrawn. What do you recall from those conversations?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From those conversations, the earlier ones, it was just about what the swinger's lifestyle is, what you see, how people act, how nobody talks about it. That is what I knew of it. And then actually seeing it in person at sex clubs, you see exactly what it is.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you understand that freakoffs were consistent with Mr. Combs' description of the swinger's lifestyle?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you reword that or ask it again? Sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you understand the freakoffs to be related to the swingers' lifestyle?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Related in a sexual way, yeah. They are very different.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you said that nobody talks about it, that means it's a secret, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you kept it a secret, did that mean that you were also keeping it a secret from your friends?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Vague.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you keeping it a secret from your friends?
MS. JOHNSON: Can we define it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you keeping freakoffs a secret from your friends?
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified on direct that there were employees of Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He has employees, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He has personal assistants?
MS. ESTEVAO: And his personal assistants do all sorts of things for him, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: They help him wake up in the morning?
MS. ESTEVAO: They arrange for his breakfast?
MS. ESTEVAO: They cater to his every need, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Whatever he need, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified on direct that they would sometimes assist in setting up hotel rooms for these freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: But the personal assistants didn't know what was going on --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did a personal assistant ever come into a hotel room and see what was going on, based on your knowledge?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Based on my knowledge, no, but they had come in the room during that period, yeah. I don't know if they saw anything, is probably the better way to say it.
MS. ESTEVAO: You would remember if an employee came in the room while you were in the middle of a session with an escort, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Would I remember? Probably. Maybe. I don't know. I was high as well, so --
MS. ESTEVAO: Much of it you don't remember, actually, because of the drugs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I remember. I just -- I had my privacy invaded quite a bit while I was in that relationship, so I can imagine.
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't have any specific recollection of an employee walking in while you were in the middle of a freakoff, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, I don't have any specific recollection, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever tell any member of his staff about the freakoffs?
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs had other staff other than personal assistants, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He had bodyguards?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Drivers?
MS. ESTEVAO: He had chiefs of staff?
MS. ESTEVAO: He had other high-level executives?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you never told any of them about what was going on during the freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, I did not.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wouldn't want any member of his staff to find out what was going on in the freakoffs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I definitely didn't, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Defense Exhibit 1003, please.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, this one is 25 pages. If the witness wants to read it, we have a paper copy. May I hand it up.
THE COURT: OK.
MS. ESTEVAO: We are not going to read this whole thing. A. I'm almost done. I just don't want to miss anything.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a text communication between you and Mr. Combs in July 2012?
MS. ESTEVAO: And the earlier part of this conversation was a government exhibit, but we are going to pick off a day after that exhibit leaves off on page 18, please.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. It's not in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission. I apologize.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1003 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1003 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to page 18.
MS. ESTEVAO: In this text chain, on July 14, 2012, you say to Mr. Combs: How is the party? I'm horny and bored. I tipped the cleaning ladies. Hope you don't mind. Hello. I need your dick. Dying. I feel like I'm trapped.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sorry. I'm not on that page.
MS. ESTEVAO: I apologize. Page 17. I can read it again.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I see it.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: I'm horny and board. I tipped the cleaning ladies. I hope you don't mind. Hello. I need your dick. Dying. I feel like I'm trapped.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: This was after a freakoff, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There is a lot of texts here. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You are discussing tipping cleaning ladies in this message, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when we go to the next page, at the bottom, you say: I love you. Had so much fun with you. I'm so happy. Thank you. And then the next message has four exclamation points, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: This is on July 16, 2012, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the following page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: I love you. And then you text a series of photos of you and, Mr. Combs, looks like outside a private plane, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Defense Exhibit 1004, please. Just for the witness and parties and the Court.
MS. ESTEVAO: Without reading this entire exchange, does it appear to be another text communication between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It appears to be.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I would ask that the witness be allowed to read the entire exchange.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, are you only going to be asking about particular parts of this exchange?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
MS. JOHNSON: If the whole thing is being offered into evidence --
THE COURT: We will get to that. It hasn't been offered yet.
MS. ESTEVAO: I move for admission.
THE COURT: Then the witness is going to have a chance to read the entire -- how many pages is this?
MS. ESTEVAO: Eight.
THE COURT: OK. Do you have a copy for the witness, or would you like here to read it off the screen.
MS. JOHNSON: Unfortunately, we don't have a copy of this exhibit for the witness, your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura, if you can look at the screen. Let the staff know if you need to move through the pages. A. OK.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does --
THE COURT: Next page.
CASANDRA VENTURA: There is nine pages. Next page. OK. OK.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, does this reflect a text communication between you and Mr. Combs?
MS. ESTEVAO: Move for admission.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: 1004 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1004 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Much of this conversation you went over during your direct testimony, right, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know about most of it. I remember it in my direct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember the portion on page 4, a lot of dicks, a lot of partying?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs said: So you feel sick. I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you asked why are you sorry?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And during your direct testimony you were asked why you asked that question, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you responded something to the effect of, well, he never asked that -- he never said he was sorry before, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: About what was going on, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: Can you make it. I think it will be good to go in with Will tonight. Rube can take you. You say: How are you? I love you. Mr. Combs says: I'm missing you, misspelled. And you have a frowny face and say: Staring at our pictures from the plane. I miss you. Mr. Combs says: I love you. Good morning to my queen. Have the greatest day of your life and get a lot of work done. You say: Good good good morning to my king, you mean everything to me, with lots of extra Os and Es.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, is there a question coming?
MS. ESTEVAO: Am I reading this accurately, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm just waiting to find out what you want me to answer.
MS. ESTEVAO: Am I reading this accurately?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so. You are just reading it.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then do you respond: I will never have the greatest day of my life until you're back home, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I see that.
MS. ESTEVAO: After Mr. Combs says, I'm sorry, and you respond, why you sorry, you exchange messages of love and affection, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Fair to say that when you say why you sorry, you mean why would you even ask; if you're sorry, you have nothing to do with that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: During your direct testimony you testified that Mr. Combs often put you down, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: But he also often built you up?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Absolutely, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And often sent you very encouraging text messages.
MS. ESTEVAO: And often told you that you were a queen, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And often encouraged you to be the best artist and woman you could be, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: There are many, many examples of that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There are.
MS. ESTEVAO: And we don't need to go through all of those text messages.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Suffice to say that there are many, many text messages that reflect that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There were uplifting text messages.
MS. ESTEVAO: And one -- in what other ways did he build you up?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Other ways did Sean build me up. I mean, words were helpful. He has got this energy, just that inspiring energy, so, words.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please show the witness, the Court, and the parties Defense Exhibit 1005.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, we do have a paper copy of? This. It's 26 pages long.
THE COURT: Let's have a brief sidebar.
(Continued on next page)
(At sidebar)
THE COURT: I take it that a lot of these text messages, the government does not have an objection to their admission. However, it is fair for the witness to be able to review them before you seek admission. Because of the length of these exhibits, that takes a little bit of time and it's eating up time in front of the jury that probably does not need to be eaten up because there is probably -- I can think of, at least, two ways to avoid this issue. One is that you gave the text messages to the witness to review by herself over the lunch break, and then you can just seek admission, and we wouldn't have to go through this. The other way is to break up the exhibits, little bit more time consuming to focus on those portions that you seek to admit. That would also save time. For present purposes, are there questions that you could ask to get us through to the lunch hour so that we can make good use of the jury's time?
MR. AGNIFILO: What time does the Court want to take lunch?
THE COURT: I think the jurors will have their lunch by 12:15. We can take it later, though -- we can go as long as we want. I'm mindful of the concern that was raised concerning the witness' availability. As I said yesterday, I'm planning to tell the jury to take 30 minutes and come back. Just be mindful of that. I'd like to go longer, if we can. However, if this is a good breaking point, I can also stop earlier.
MS. ESTEVAO: We are way ahead of you, Judge. We want to make these exhibits smaller and more to the point, and we plan on doing that, because this was a rushed process, but we will endeavor to do that. I suggest that we get through that exhibit and then take our break.
MS. COMEY: May I hand this to the witness?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. JOHNSON: Thank you.
(Continued on next page)