MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. CASANDRA VENTURA, resumed. CROSS-EXAMINATION (cont'd)
BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: Good morning, Ms. Ventura.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Good morning.
MS. ESTEVAO: We finished our conversation yesterday talking about the Intercontinental and the drug use that was going on that evening, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you previously told the government that you believed that Mr. Combs was blackout for the Intercontinental event, isn't that right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe that he was intoxicated, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. You believed he was blackout, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Everybody's definition of blackout is different.
MS. ESTEVAO: You used the word blackout.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Government Exhibit B-631, page 6, in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read the bottom message that you sent to Mr. Combs, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: When you get fucked up the wrong way --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection, your Honor. This is not yet in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: I apologize. Please take it down. Can you just show the witness that exhibit.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, do you recognize this as a text message that you sent to Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: This exhibit will be admitted.
(Government Exhibit B-631 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Please publish for the jury as Government Exhibit about 631.
MS. ESTEVAO: Please read it.
CASANDRA VENTURA: When you get fucked up the wrong way, you always want to show me that you have the power and you knock me around. I'm not a rag doll. I'm someone's child.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say, when you get fucked up the wrong way, you meant that he took too many drugs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I meant that he was out of control.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because of the amount of drugs that he had taken, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: And alcohol.
MS. ESTEVAO: And alcohol. He often combined drugs with alcohol, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. We both did.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we show just the witness Defense Exhibit 1080, please. I apologize. 1090. We are beginning on page 1090.17 at the bottom. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, do you recognize this exchange as a conversation between you and Mr. Combs on March 9, 2016?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: We are just three days after the Intercontinental incident, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says to you, I'm so horny for you, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. This is not yet in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry. Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, we don't have an objection, but we discussed with Ms. Geragos that this -- as I understand it, the application is to admit the pages marked 1090.17, 1090.18, 1090.19, and 1090.20, not this entire PDF.
MS. ESTEVAO: We propose a revised version referred to as Defense Exhibit 1090-A.
THE COURT: That includes solely those pages?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, correct.
THE COURT: 1090-A will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1090-A received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, could you first just take a look at this yourself.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Cepregi, can you please go to the next page so she can see the whole thing.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Is there another page after?
MS. JOHNSON: I have a hard copy, if that's easier. May I approach?
THE COURT: You may approach. A. OK.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recognize this as an exchange between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: I thought this was admitted.
THE COURT: Already admitted.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we start at the beginning.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: I'm so horny for you with three exclamation points, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is only a couple of days after the Intercontinental, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: You are? And then: Why? What made you feel that way? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you reacting that way because it's a little unusual that he would say he was horny for you after what had happened, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's a little strange, given the events of the past few days, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: A little strange, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he said: I felt that way from Friday. What are you doing? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: Not a good vibe. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is him sending you a suggestion to have sex shortly after the Intercontinental, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: He is proposing having sex or some sexual activity with you after the Intercontinental, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He is saying how he feels. I don't know if that's sex.
MS. ESTEVAO: You took it as a suggestion to have sex shortly after the incident, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I mean, I don't know exactly at this point.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say in response: Not a good vibe. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Which makes sense.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because it's a little odd that he would be suggesting something like that after the Intercontinental?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say at the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We need a different vibe than Friday.
MS. ESTEVAO: By that you mean we need to do something different from what happened on Friday, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: A departure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: A departure from what had happened at Intercontinental, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: For sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because what had happened at Intercontinental was terrible, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You acknowledged that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says in response: Fuck Friday. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And LOL. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What does he say at the top.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't even wanna do that again.
MS. ESTEVAO: By that, you took it to mean that he does not want to do whatever happened at Intercontinental again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That is what I would guess, but I don't know specifically.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that would include the violence that ensued in the hallway, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And potentially the amount of drugs that he was taking on Friday, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say in response?
CASANDRA VENTURA: LOL, true.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: What are you doing again. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next message.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say: At Conde Nast for my Vogue interview. He says: You're a star. Know that. You're the shit. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: This is the sweetest card I ever got. I love you. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Is this a continuation? Yes. I guess so. Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say love you in response, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you meant that when you sent it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I have an objection. I'm sorry. We only admitted through page 1090.20 and now we are on -- we are past that, so this is not in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can take it down.
MS. JOHNSON: I move to strike everything after the message that ended WYD on 1090.20.
THE COURT: The motion to strike is granted, and the jury should disregard the last testimony just on that last page. Let's proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Government Exhibit B-606 and B-607. I believe these are already in evidence, but Ms. Johnson will correct me.
MS. JOHNSON: They are.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, you remember testifying about these photos, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why did you take these photos of your face?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I honestly don't know now. When they came up it was a surprise to me because I didn't remember it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is it fair to say that you didn't remember much from that day?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I just didn't remember taking these photos.
MS. ESTEVAO: Please take them down.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs went to a rehab facility about a month following the Intercontinental event, didn't he?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would it help to refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you we please show just on the screen, we don't need any audio, just for the witness 1278, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: In the meantime, while that is getting pulled up, Ms. Ventura, do you recall an incident when Mr. Combs suspected you of cheating on him with someone in August of 2018?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Our relationship was over by then.
MS. ESTEVAO: Excuse me. August of 2016.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do recall.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you know who I'm referring to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was at your apartment at a certain point in August 2016 when he learned that this relationship or suspected that this relationship was going on, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. No. It wasn't at my house, though.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you in a car?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We were in a car.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were in a car?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You received a call on your phone, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: How did Mr. Combs learn about information that suggested that you were having an affair with someone else?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I actually am not sure, you know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you want to tell us what happened when he suspected you of cheating and ultimately took your phone? That's what I'm getting at.
CASANDRA VENTURA: At this point we was also not in a great place. This was right before my 30th birthday, I think. Yeah. I was dating someone else. And I am not sure how he found out, but I took a drive with him to a doctor's appointment, and he told me to hit my mom and tell her I was OK. When I unlocked my phone, he grabbed my phone and ran out of the car.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's because he saw something on your phone that suggested that you were cheating?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: You need to rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: What made him grab your phone, from your perspective?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From my perspective? Would be because he was trying to get in it and read what was in my phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he took it and left, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Down Wilshire, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were upset by that.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was a big fight between the two of you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It really wasn't a fight because he was gone.
MS. ESTEVAO: Excuse me. I don't mean fight as in a physical altercation. There was no physical altercation, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. He was just gone.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was just an argument and he took your phone.
CASANDRA VENTURA: He took my phone, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: How long did he take your phone for?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was a couple of hours before the police were called.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who called the police?
CASANDRA VENTURA: My mother.
MS. ESTEVAO: And she called the police because she was concerned about you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I returned home with no phone, and she asked me where it was, and I told her, and she said, I am going to call the police.
MS. ESTEVAO: And her reaction was out of concern for you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Of course, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because your phone hadn't returned yet, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was gone, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at some point later in the day you did get your phone back, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you ever learn whether or not Mr. Combs had looked through your phone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe he looked through my phone. I believe he also spoke to somebody on my phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: He spoke to the person that you were having an affair with, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so. I wasn't there.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was -- and that person is a professional NFL player, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know if he is now.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was at the time.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was insanely jealous over this event, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess you could call it that.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was always upset with you when he suspected you of cheating, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was upset with you when he suspected you of cheating?
CASANDRA VENTURA: If I was with anyone else besides him, yeah. I don't know that I would call it cheating at that point. Sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: If he thought that it was cheating -- you understood that he thought it was cheating, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. When you're not with somebody, it's not cheating, but I feel like that's a technicality in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. We weren't married.
MS. ESTEVAO: Even when you were on breaks he would get upset and jealous from your perspective when he learned that you were with someone else, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Even when you weren't with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Agreed.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that bothered you because it meant that you couldn't go and date other people without him getting upset with you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Bothered. I don't know if that's the word.
MS. ESTEVAO: Fair to say that he would get upset whenever he found out about -- or whenever he suspected you were with another man, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection to foundation. Speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained. The question needs to be rephrased.
MS. ESTEVAO: I can move on.
MS. ESTEVAO: That was not the first time that he took your phone, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He has taken your phone on other occasions too, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's typically so he could look through your phone, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: After he has taken your phone, tell us about other times that he has taken your phone.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Other times he has taken my phone. When he was angry at me about something, he would take a lot of things.
MS. ESTEVAO: On one occasion he found out that you were dancing with another entertainer in the industry and took your phone, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you reask.
MS. ESTEVAO: He found out that you were dancing with another person in the entertainment industry and was upset and took your phone, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I honestly don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember the occasion when he suspected you of dancing with Chris Brown?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do. But I was not.
MS. ESTEVAO: He thought that you were, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
THE COURT: Sustained. That's sustained. These questions need to be rephrased.
MS. ESTEVAO: You remember him taking your phone on that occasion?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Absolutely don't remember what happened on that occasion besides the fact that I wasn't dancing with Chris Brown.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would it help to refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we show just the witness Defense Exhibit 1191, please. Can we go to the next page and the third from the bottom.
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you read it?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does that refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: This is what I thought you were talking about, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I understand this is from many years ago, from 2013?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So that might be why you didn't remember?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you now remember that he took your phone after suspecting that you danced with Chris Brown?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It says that in the message, but I don't really remember it.
MS. ESTEVAO: You can take that down, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were there any other occasions when he took your phone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you tell us about those.
CASANDRA VENTURA: The only other general times where he would take my phone, my car, my watch, my passport, was when he was angry about something.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is Defense Exhibit 1278 ready for the witness?
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this refresh your recollection as to whether or not Mr. Combs was in rehab following the Intercontinental incident?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I vaguely remember it, but I don't know that it was rehab. I don't really know where he was exactly.
MS. ESTEVAO: OK. Thank you. What do you remember from the period following the Intercontinental incident?
CASANDRA VENTURA: What do I remember. Not a whole lot. I went back to or ended up in New York to do promo for the movie. After that, I don't really remember too much.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember Mr. Combs going anywhere following the Intercontinental incident?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He went to a lot of places. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did he go to Sedona?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He could have, yeah. That looks like Sedona.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're familiar with Sedona?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You've also gone to rehab in Sedona.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It wasn't rehab, but I went to Sedona, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: What is Sedona?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's a place in Arizona that has a lot of vortexes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Why did you go to Sedona?
CASANDRA VENTURA: My purpose of going to Sedona was to take a break from the drugs and partying. I was there for about a week.
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe you referred to it as a spa yesterday.
CASANDRA VENTURA: That was the Golden Door, which is a whole other place.
MS. ESTEVAO: I see. Thank you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: You're welcome.
MS. ESTEVAO: I am going to go a new topic, please. Can we pull up Government Exhibit 263. I believe this is in evidence. Excuse me. B-263.
MS. ESTEVAO: In your direct testimony you were asked about an occasion in March 2014 relating to someone named Sugin, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You remember that testimony?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said on your direct that you had learned from Sugin that there was potentially a recording of you out there, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were concerned about that because you thought it may have been one of the freak-off videos?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you at some point were with Sugin and were asking him about this video, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And I believe you testified that a security guard from Mr. Combs' staff was also there during this conversation or in relation to this conversation.
CASANDRA VENTURA: That day they were there, yeah, or that night.
MS. ESTEVAO: And I think you went through part of this government exhibit in discussing this, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I believe so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you suggested on your direct testimony that Mr. Combs was encouraging you to get to the bottom of it with Sugin, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please, and the following page.
(Continued on next page)
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs is asking you in these messages about this video?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's asking, are you talking to him yet, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I see that.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, this is crazy, don't let him out of your sight, wtf, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he's asking what's going on. And you say, I don't think you understand how crazy this is, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, the way you've been talking to me is crazier, man, you don't even know, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, what's up in car, hello, you think I should just hit Jess and say I want to talk to him on my own before, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please. Can you please keep going. I see. Okay. Can you please bring up just for the witness defense exhibit 1057. Can you let the witness review this document first. I believe this wasn't on the list we provided to the government, I'm just realizing. So if the government could review it, as well.
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you reviewed the exhibit, Ms. Ventura? Is this a conversation you had with Mr. Combs on March 11, 2014?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like it. How many pages was that, though? Just curious because we went a little bit past.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry. We haven't finished it.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was seven pages.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did we go through it? Great.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know if I caught everything, but yes, it looks like a conversation between us.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection. Except I would note the conversation starts on March 10th, not March 11th.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
THE COURT: 1057 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1057 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read from the top -- or I'll read Mr. Combs and can you read your bubbles. It says, remember you said it done. What did I do to you, you disappearing, where were you, and watch what you ask for, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup. I'm at the apartment. Are you serious. Obviously you're high. I'm not at all. Just trying to relax from the night it.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's 7:30 a.m. You're just up, and you didn't get into my apartment until 4:45 a.m., which is crazy, and was hitting you to get an update, no answer. So where were you all that time and why were you busy to respond?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was checking my phone constantly and was hitting you back. I went to the party and came home. Because of everything going on, we didn't go in until 2:30. I'm up because it took this long to turn down. In the bed now. Why are you up.
MS. ESTEVAO: Next page, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Was that part of the other message?
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe this is the next page, if you'd like to keep reading. A. You're whack for lying to me about bitches coming to the house, I tried to just leave it, but you fucking with me now. You aren't here and all you've done is stress my nerves. You're really bringing up Sugin? You crazy. He's a grown man. I was trying to keep it cool. He hit me when I got home that he fell asleep. I don't know what you want to do anymore. I want to do whatever I can, but you just keep putting me down. I'm over here dealing with this on my own, I really hope you didn't get drunk and embarrass me, but I'm sure you did. Always great to hear bitches telling me shit I don't want to hear or know.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is following the events with Sugin, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. How many days after was this? Is that like a day after?
MS. ESTEVAO: I see Ms. Johnson is ready.
MS. JOHNSON: Can I clarify with defense counsel one moment?
THE COURT: Yes. Ms. Ventura, just answer the questions to the best of your ability and if you can't because you need some clarification, then Ms. Estevao will give you that clarification. Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is shortly after an occasion where you went to your brother's birthday party, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure if this is the same year or not.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, this was a trip to New York and New Jersey that you went on in 2014, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was back in California, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You went to your brother's birthday party and got into a physical altercation there, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up, just for the witness, defense exhibit 1198.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you could just review this page and then skip to the page that bears the number 1198.8 at the bottom.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: And review this page, as well.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: On March 10th, 2013, you went to your brother's birthday party, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: At that birthday party, you got in a bar fight, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you told Mr. Combs that you got in a bar fight and that you tried to kill a bitch, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. A. It's what it says.
MS. JOHNSON: This is not in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm just asking if she told --
THE COURT: It's overruled. Let's continue.
MS. JOHNSON: Can we take it off the screen.
THE COURT: You want to move to admit this exhibit?
MS. ESTEVAO: I don't need to. She told me that she told Mr. Combs that.
THE COURT: Let's have a very brief sidebar.
(Continued on next page)
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: I want to make sure that the mechanics are down on some of this just to avoid some of the objections. When you're putting up an exhibit and then you need to authenticate it or just make sure the witness is aware of it, you're putting it up with the assumption that after doing that, you're going to move to admit it, but if you're then going to essentially use it as a refreshing document, then it needs to be taken down once the witness has had a chance to read it. I think if we just do that, it will be helpful because then the witness will probably have fewer questions about what she's seeing, and then also you might avoid some of the objections.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: So that's all I have to say. Ms. Johnson, anything further?
MS. JOHNSON: I just want to flag that this document, I understand this was to refresh, the one before also wasn't on the list. I want to know if there were any other documents that weren't given to us.
THE COURT: At this point, I understand the concern, and hopefully we will not run into anything like that. If we do, we'll deal with it. Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: In March 2014, you did have that conversation with Sugin and I believe it was Atlantic City, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you recorded that conversation, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Move to admit defense exhibit 1217-A and defense exhibit -- withdrawn. The metadata is defense exhibit 1217-A and the video is defense exhibit 1217.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
THE COURT: Defense exhibits 1217 and 1217-A will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibits 1217, 1217-A received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we begin playing at the 16:30 mark, please.
(Audio played)
MS. ESTEVAO: Whose voice is that that we're hearing?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's Sugin's voice.
MS. ESTEVAO: I am abbreviating this audio recording so we don't have to listen to a half hour. Can you help set the scene for us in terms of what's going on in this audio recording. Where are you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At the point of this audio recording, I believe we're in Atlantic City. I had just hosted a set of parties the night before.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you reviewed this audio recording this morning before taking the stand?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you please keep playing.
(Audio played)
MS. ESTEVAO: That's your voice talking to Sugin, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Please keep playing.
(Audio played)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we start playing at minute 17, please.
(Audio played)
MS. ESTEVAO: That's you on that audio recording, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at this time, Mr. Combs was in California, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And there were other occasions when you were afraid that video recordings were going to be released of freak-off activities, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There might have been some other instances. I don't remember specifically.
MS. ESTEVAO: This wasn't the only time that that happened?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs was also concerned about the prospect of videos being released, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you know whether or not Mr. Combs expressed concern about these videos also being released?
CASANDRA VENTURA: When?
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you ever witnessed Mr. Combs express concern about these videos being released?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs always supported you in not wanting these videos to come out and prevented these videos from coming out?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would say for the most part.
MS. ESTEVAO: There was an escort that you met named Mr. Jonathan Oddi a few times, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you know who I'm referring to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: At some point, you understood that he'd taken a video, a secret video of you and Mr. Combs and he at a freak-off, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I thought he did, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you found out about that, you spent some amount of time, several months, trying to make sure that it went away, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did not.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs did?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You understood that Mr. Combs spent a great deal of time and money to make sure that that video went away, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't know any of the details.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you aware that he spent a significant amount of money to make sure that the video did not get released?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs would make sure that a video did not get released, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Asked and answered.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you found out that Mr. Oddi --
THE COURT: Hold on. Do you want me to rule on the objection or would you like to move on?
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm fine moving on. We did get the answer.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you learned that Mr. Oddi had taken a secret recording of you, that ended your relationship with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so.
MS. ESTEVAO: You never would have had a freak-off with him ever again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm not going to play anything, but you also had a conversation with Mr. Oddi that was transcribed, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um --
MS. ESTEVAO: Or recorded.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Recorded. I don't remember, but it sounds familiar.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were very concerned about the situation with Mr. Oddi, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He seemed like a volatile personality, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know about volatile. I just didn't trust it.
MS. ESTEVAO: He was threatening to release a sex video of you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that he actually did that. I don't -- I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't know if he threatened to release the video?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: You just remember learning that he did have a video?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was in the room with him and I saw the phone up, and so I told Sean about it right after.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you were concerned that he was recording at the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you raised that concern with Mr. Combs, he did all that he could to get rid of Mr. Oddi, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: What happened when you told Mr. Combs about your suspicion that Oddi was recording you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He said I'll take care of it. That's the most I remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge, Mr. Combs was also concerned about recordings of him getting out, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs is a celebrity, as we've already established, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And these would have been embarrassing to him had they been released, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Just as they would have been embarrassing to you had they been released?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess it depends on what content. Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Had a sex video of you been released, it would have been embarrassing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: For sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's why you were so upset in that audio recording we just heard, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: What is Cowboys 4 Angels?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's an escort service that's online.
MS. ESTEVAO: There's an individual named Garren who's the head of the agency, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: This escort service was also featured on a reality television show, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From what I hear, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: A show called Gigolos on Showtime?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Hearsay.
THE COURT: That's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Cowboys 4 Angels was on a Showtime television show called Gigolos, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that television show also featured an escort that you had invited to a freak-off, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Hearsay.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I've never seen the show, so I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were concerned that individuals from Cowboys 4 Angels that you were hiring were also participating in a reality television show, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you did not want the fact of your freak-offs to be on a reality TV show, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You understood that the reality TV show followed these escorts around, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know because I didn't see it, but I would guess so.
MS. ESTEVAO: There was a time when one of the escorts from Cowboys 4 Angels was leaving comments on Mr. Combs's pictures on social media, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Foundation.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you aware of an escort from Cowboys 4 Angels leaving comments on Mr. Combs's Instagram page?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I am not.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we show just the witness defense exhibit 1395. Could we go to page 7, please. I'm sorry. The end of page 6 into page 7. Can you please take this down.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall a Cowboys 4 Angels escort leaving comments on Mr. Combs's picture?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I see it, but I don't remember this instant.
MS. ESTEVAO: You and Mr. Combs obviously wanted to keep this private, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup, we did.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's why you wanted to make sure the escorts you hired were discrete, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up defense exhibit 1083. Withdrawn. We can take this one down. Can we put up Government Exhibit A-441-G, which I believe is in evidence. And scroll down. Oh, it's in evidence. Can we pull it up on the screen, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, do you want me to tell the truth, it's way deeper than iPads, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Just to clarify, that message is not from Mr. Combs.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, you say, do you want me to tell the truth, it's way deeper than iPads, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go back up. I guess skip one.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, I'll pull up and handle it face-to-face. No threat. Facts. And you will not be threatening me. You have too many iPads full of skeletons. If I was you, I would get me my money because we both have better things to do with our lives. I really don't want no problems. I got it from here. I tried. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was accusing you of having iPads, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what it says, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And if we scroll back down.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, it's way deeper than iPads, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that when you said it's way deeper than iPads, you were referring to physical assaults, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The relationship as a whole, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Just as a reminder, this text exchange was after your breakup, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Oh, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can I confer with government counsel for a moment, please.
THE COURT: You may.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your Honor, at long last I'm going to offer a number of exhibits.
THE COURT: Please proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: Defense exhibit 1000, 1022, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1087, 1096, 1115, 1117, 1118, 1122, 1134, 1134, 1145, 1152, 1299, 1304, 1306, 1309, 1311, 1312, 1313, 1316, 1320, 1325, 1334, 1405, 1406, and 1409.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: No objection. The government just notes with respect to authenticity, all of these exhibits, save defense exhibit 1405, are from Ms. Ventura's devices, and Government Exhibit 1405 is an exhibit that Ms. Ventura has received, so the government has agreed to its authenticity, and has paper copies should Ms. Ventura want to review them.
THE COURT: Those exhibits identified by Ms. Estevao will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibits 1000, 1022, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1087, 1096, 1115, 1117, 1118, 1122, 1134, 1134, 1145, 1152, 1299, 1304, 1306, 1309, 1311, 1312, 1313, 1316, 1320, 1325, 1334, 1405, 1406, and 1409 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we begin with exhibit 1000. Can we go to the next page, please. Next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say to Mr. Combs -- can you read your message to Mr. Combs, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: From the top?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I need a moment to confer with counsel.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can take this down. Can we please — new subject — pull up exhibits 3Q-109 and 3Q-112.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, who took these photos?
CASANDRA VENTURA: My mother.
MS. ESTEVAO: How did you provide them to the government, without disclosing any communications with counsel.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know what you mean. I'm sorry. How did I give --
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you have possession of these photos?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: In what form do you have possession of these photos?
CASANDRA VENTURA: They're just photos in my iPhone.
MS. ESTEVAO: They're photos in your iPhone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You can take these down.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified that after the Kid Cudi instance, you got back together with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, by January 1st, you were already back together with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was just shortly after the events in question, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Vague.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was January 1st shortly after the Kid Cudi events you discussed on direct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we fast forward to September 2012 and pull up defense -- just for the witness, defense exhibit 1007. I'm not going to offer this. Scroll down.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, did you say you're not going to offer this exhibit?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, but Ms. Geragos reminds me it's already in. We can put it up for the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says to you --
MS. JOHNSON: Can we check before it's published to the jury that this is in evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry?
MS. JOHNSON: I want to check that this is in evidence before it's published. We're good.
THE COURT: Please proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, so what you want to do, woman, and no, I'm not asking to FO, I want to know what you want to do, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, get something to eat, smoke, take a walk, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we scroll down and go to the next page, and the next page. We can take this exhibit down. I apologize.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, you talked on -- you spoke about the treatment facility that you went to in early 2023, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that treatment facility is called the Willow House, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was a 45-day inpatient treatment center, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because of the mental health problems you described on direct, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And during that period of time, you had no family communication whatsoever, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was really sparse, yeah. There was no phone.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was part of the rules of the facility, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you review the website of Willow House prior to going?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Actually, I don't remember. I might -- I've seen it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Presumably, you would have if you were leaving your children for 45 days to go to this place, you wouldn't do this --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said on direct that you've been clean since 2022, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: But do you still take Suboxone?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do. Well, actually, no, that's not what I'm taking right now.
MS. ESTEVAO: What are you taking right now?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm taking buprenorphine.
MS. ESTEVAO: What is that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's Suboxone without naloxone. I'm not a doctor. I don't know exactly.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you understand it to treat?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Opiate addiction.
MS. ESTEVAO: And how long have you been on this medication?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Since 2022.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were put on this medication following your treatment at the Willow House, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. 403.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: When were you put on the treatment?
CASANDRA VENTURA: In 2022. I went to treatment in 2023.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you were put on the treatment in 2022 and went to Willow House in 2023?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified on direct about the document that you wrote that you called a book, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: The form of a book, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Titled the Dark Times, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wrote that book following or during your stay at Willow House, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I -- yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it during or following?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was following, really. I started to write while I was there, but it wasn't really an idea while I was there.
MS. ESTEVAO: You began writing while at Willow House, your feelings?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, healing.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that ultimately ended up in the book, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Willow House includes treatment for a number of different conditions, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Things like sex addiction, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Sexual compulsion, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. 403.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: To your knowledge, does it treat sexual compulsion?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, I don't know specifically, but it sounds about right.
MS. ESTEVAO: It also treats something called love addiction?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Were you treated for any of these during your stay at Willow House?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Nope.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. 401, 403.
MS. ESTEVAO: I will get there.
THE COURT: Let's have a very, very brief sidebar.
(Continued on next page)
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: Can I get a proffer of relevance.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your Honor, the book that Ms. Ventura wrote where she says that she learned that she was sex trafficked for the first time, she says she learned it in connection with entering the Willow House facility, and she took their standard psychological entrance exam, something like that, and that's how she learned that she was --
THE COURT: You're leading up to that?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Understood.
MS. JOHNSON: While we're here, I think that we need to discuss what, if anything, comes in about that. It's hearsay, and any discussion of sex trafficking is a legal conclusion that this witness cannot testify to.
THE COURT: Wait. Hold on. Who are you talking to? Are you raising an objection to a question that has not been asked?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
THE COURT: Thank you for giving me the heads up, that's helpful. If those questions come up, Ms. Estevao, when counsel says objection, because nothing further should be said, I will understand what you're directing that to. So there are issues of sex trafficking, there are potential issues of hearsay, you'll be mindful of that because I --
MS. ESTEVAO: Your Honor, I anticipate asking her if she wrote down in her book that she learned that she was --
THE COURT: I don't think that's what Ms. Johnson is referring to.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can we have a second, Judge.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't think we're going to go that far. I don't think we're going to ask that question.
THE COURT: Do what you need to do and the objections will be raised, if they are raised, and we will deal with them.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, just one more thing before we go. The line of questioning about what Ms. Ventura was not at rehab for is what the government has been objecting to.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is --
MS. JOHNSON: Is not at rehab for. She testified on direct what she did go to rehab for, which is trauma therapy and drug addiction, and a line of questioning about what she wasn't there for is prejudicial, it has no probative value, and it's harassing a witness.
THE COURT: Well, we don't know because we haven't gotten there yet, but I understand --
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm not going further, I was asking.
MS. JOHNSON: She testified what she wasn't there for. Can we ask her what she was in fact there for.
THE COURT: I understand the objection, let's proceed.
(In open court)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, when you're ready.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, while you were at Willow House, did you receive any treatment there -- withdrawn. Ms. Ventura, do you know whether or not Willow House includes treatment such as something called neurofeedback?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And were you treated with this neurofeedback therapy?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did neurofeedback, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you explain what that is.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I mean, I couldn't explain it to you like a professional, but --
MS. ESTEVAO: Based on your understanding.
CASANDRA VENTURA: They hook your brain up to a machine and you watch something, and just kind of regulates your brainwaves. The best way to describe it. It was a while ago.
MS. ESTEVAO: This was while were you were at Willow House?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it included putting some device to your head, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: How many times did you do that at Willow House?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Probably, roughly five or six times, like once a week while I was there.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Willow House advertises this technique as something that can change brain --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection. Hearsay, 403.
THE COURT: So counsel can just say objection and let me take a look at the question and then we can proceed from there. Ms. Estevao, you need to rephrase that question or ask some additional questions before getting to it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, when you read the website for the Willow House facility, did you look at its description of neurofeedback?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't believe that's something that I was paying attention to at that point. It was kind of like a dire situation to just get there.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you were at Willow House, were you told the effects of this neurofeedback --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: What did you understand the effects of the neurofeedback to be?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Help me with my trauma.
MS. ESTEVAO: In what way was it supposed to affect your brain activity?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
MS. ESTEVAO: Willow House also has a treatment called psychodrama. Did you participate in that?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember that, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Willow House also has a treatment called EMDR. Are you familiar with that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you participate in EMDR?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you understand EMDR to do?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It helps you recount memories. It's kind of random, but it's part of the trauma therapy. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not trying to give a --
MS. ESTEVAO: I understand. Your understanding.
CASANDRA VENTURA: My understanding is that it helped me recount memories and process them.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it involves prompts to have you think about prior traumatic memories again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There are no prompts. It's kind of open.
MS. ESTEVAO: But the idea is you recall prior traumatic memories, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what comes up for you, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it's a typical treatment for PTSD, from what you understand, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. ESTEVAO: You understand you were being treated for PTSD, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Willow House also includes something called somatic experiencing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you understand that to be?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I actually did not do a whole lot of somatic experiencing, but from what I remember, it kind of let's you complete a trauma that got cut off. I don't know how to explain this, really. Yeah. For instance, you're getting -- I don't want to talk too much. If you were getting beat up and you couldn't walk out of a room, you get to walk out of the room in that healing.
MS. ESTEVAO: Reimagining a traumatic experience, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you participated in that treatment, reimagining traumatic experiences, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: A couple of times there.
MS. ESTEVAO: As part of your PTSD therapy, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: On direct you said something to the effect of when you met Mr. Combs, you were still physically developing. Do you remember that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you said that, you weren't referring to your physical body, other than your brain. What were you referring to when you said that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Everything, my brain, my body, all of it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Well, you were 22 years old, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. So --
MS. ESTEVAO: So in what way were you physically developing still?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think every woman continues to develop after 22. You don't think so?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you are suggesting that -- you are not suggesting that your body was not fully physically developed at 22, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Okay. At Willow House, you took a standard psychological entrance testing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that consisted of hundreds of questions, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up defense exhibit 1022, please. This has been admitted. Withdrawn. Can we put up 1080, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your message to Mr. Combs, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm just finishing reading it.
MS. JOHNSON: I have a hard copy, if that would be helpful.
CASANDRA VENTURA: It would.
MS. JOHNSON: May I approach?
THE COURT: You may. A. Are you ready for me to read it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I liked the me that I was better when I was in the Bahamas, but yeah, I guess the physical part has been fucked up a little. I'm sorry that I've been upset. I think I just wish it could be overnight sometimes, and I'm overthinking a lot, stressing myself out. I'm back to caring too much and being frustrated with myself. I just need to stay busy and keep in motion, sitting still has me depressed. Love you. Have a good night. Please don't feel like you can't go have fun.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember what this was referring to?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, I love you, it's okay, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go down.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Do you want me to continue? Sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we keep going down.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you say? He said physical sex, right? Physical means sex?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Yeah, because I love you and sex means a lot to me with you.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, so you want to have sex for a while, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you scroll down, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: I love you, too.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you keep going. Can we pull up 1081, please.
MS. JOHNSON: I have a hard copy for Ms. Ventura, if that's helpful. May I approach?
THE COURT: Of course.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you can skip to 1081.6 at the bottom.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, may I confer with counsel.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you look at the bottom of the page and --
MS. ESTEVAO: The very bottom. Oh, yes. We're in the right place.
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, can you read the bottom message on the screen, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: You know we have to have a proper FO without no K. I need to get it out of my head. I hate K. So you let me know when. Please don't be mad and think that's all I want to do. It's just the K -- I don't know what that says. A successful FO is when we remember and don't be friending to do it the right way. I won't bring it up again until you're in that mood and I'll fly Dave in.
MS. ESTEVAO: When he says friending, he means fiending, you think, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is him indicating to you he wants to have a freak-off without ketamine, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Which suggests that you previously had a freak-off with ketamine, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, may I confer with counsel.
THE COURT: No. Ms. Estevao.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to defense exhibit 1082, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your message at the top.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Is it okay to read it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm fine. Just trying to get my life back organized.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read his message, as well.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, I know, right. I'm sorry. I feel like it's my fault that we rushed back into shit. I'm praying on us. Love is so hard sometimes. We both got to get back on track or we'll never get shit done. I want you to know that I realize what's going on. We're at a great place. Let's give things time to breathe in a positive light. I need to get the songs for Epic. Send me all the songs on a flash drive. When you're ready, I'll send Dave to get so I can get that done and I'm coming up with a management solution. Anything else you want me to work on, please send. And I'm going to my therapist today. Love you so much and always will.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this message is from February 2016, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is after you went to South Africa and broke up --
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I'm really sorry. I not sure this piece of the exhibit is in evidence.
(Continued on next page)
THE COURT: It's 11. I think we have been going a hour and a half. Let's take a 10-minute recess at this point. All rise for the jury.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Ms. Ventura, we will see you back in 10 minutes. We are not going to proceed in this fashion. A few ground rules that should have been clear if the parties had reviewed this Court's individual practices. I will just remind people about this. First, on objection, you say objection. If I need the grounds, I will ask for those grounds. If you need to specify further and ask for a sidebar, you may ask for a sidebar. That's how we are going to handle objections from here on out. In terms of admitted exhibits, why is there confusion between the parties on what is admitted and what is not admitted? We should not have any of that confusion.
MS. ESTEVAO: I apologize. I am going to use the break to clarify some of the issues.
THE COURT: There is not going to be a break for the people here. That was a break for the jury and a break for the witness, but we are going to come back in, I said, 10 minutes. We are going to come back in 10 minutes. A list of all admitted exhibits will be shared between the parties in advance of Sunday at 5 p.m. and will be furnished to the Court at that time. That list will be updated each day and submitted to chambers by 7 p.m. That way, we will have no confusion whatsoever about which exhibits are admitted, and any disputes or lack of agreement on that can be worked out between the parties. I don't believe the Court has the government's witness list, so I want a witness list. I want an anticipated order of witnesses. We will have that by Sunday at 5 p.m. as well.
As for the defense, exhibits to be used on the next trial day that are part of the defense's case in chief -- what I mean by that is affirmative evidence that is not going to be used for impeachment purposes -- will be provided to the government, at the latest, at 7 p.m. before the next trial day for any witnesses to be testifying that day and 5 p.m. on Sunday. Whichever government witnesses are testifying on Monday, if the defense plans to put in affirmative evidence that isn't going to be used for impeachment purposes, that needs to be furnished to the government by 5 p.m. on Sunday so that we can address any objections well in advance. If there is no proper disclosure, then the exhibits will be precluded. As for these long text messages, if the defense or the government is planning to use long text messages with any witness, I am telling you to use binders with the witnesses. They can have a binder of those exhibits in front of them so we can avoid some of the time that we have been losing with having to look at the exhibits on the screen. It's just hard with the infrastructure that we have, and this is a court problem. It's hard to just have multiple things on the screen, and our screens are not big enough to see the whole exhibit. I think it will be helpful to have binders for the witnesses. Ms. Johnson, maybe you can fill me in. There have been these instances where we have had some meet-and-confer sessions during cross-examination. What have those been about?
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, the primary thing they have been about is that the defense last night cut down some of the length of their exhibits, which the government greatly appreciates. But I think what's been happening and the reason the government has been objecting that this isn't in evidence is it appears that the longer versions are sometimes what's been pulled up. For that last exhibit, for example, the exhibit we understood was being admitted was the revised version we received of six pages last night. I'm looking at that version on the iPad. That text that was shown is not in the version that I see. That's what we are conferring about. We just want to make sure that the revised exhibits that we received last night, which were the ones that we thought were being admitted today, are the only exhibits being published to the jury and shown to the witness.
THE COURT: Understood. Thank you. You have four minutes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, I'm sorry. If we can have six extra minutes, I think we can probably save 20 minutes.
THE COURT: OK. On that representation, I am going to hold you to that.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Let's have Ms. Ventura back. Welcome back. Ms. Geragos, do we have your colleagues?
MS. GERAGOS: Your Honor, I thought they were coming behind me.
THE COURT: Let's get our jury.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, when you're ready.
BY MS. ESTEVAO:
MS. ESTEVAO: Ms. Ventura, on direct examination you were shown and asked about Government Exhibit 3A-117.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we please pull that up.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall this message, dated April 19, 2020, the portion starting from: I want to talk to you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: 2010.
MS. ESTEVAO: I want to talk to you about something tomorrow.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Going to sleep. Love you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then Mr. Combs says: Is it going to stress me out? What is it about? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Freak-off, it can wait. It's not a big deal.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: Now you don't want to do anymore. LO. I already know. You so predictable. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Really. OK. Since that's definitely what it was, we'll leave it at that then since I'm so predictable. Have a good night.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: Whatever baby. I'm not going to play no games with you. And you ain't going to keep shutting me down. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified on direct that you were going to tell him that you didn't want to do freak-offs anymore, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was going to tell him that, yeah, I didn't love it, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you didn't tell him that because you didn't want him to be upset, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I saw his reaction and, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You expected that he might react poorly because he would somehow figure out a way to make it happen anyway. I think that's what you testified to?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: For the parties and the witness can we put up Defense Exhibit 1406, please. We can publish to the jury.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is a message between you and Mr. Combs? I'll let you take a look at it.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I have a hard copy for the witness.
THE COURT: You may approach.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we start, and, baby, we really need. Yes. It's near the top of the second page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says to you: And, baby, we really need to do some soul searching this time. We gotta figure out a plan to get us back on point. Think about it. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I haven't seen this. Can I just read through it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Sure. Let me know when you are done reading. Just as a reminder, this is one day before the last exhibit we just looked at, right? This is April 19.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can go back to 3A-117, if that would be helpful.
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. It's OK. I'm just making sure that I understand. OK.
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you reviewed this document before today?
MS. ESTEVAO: The government didn't review it with you in preparation for your testimony?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I don't recognize it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Going back to some of the documents we reviewed yesterday, did those include some that you had never reviewed with the government before?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't really know at this point.
MS. ESTEVAO: Let's go to the bottom where -- sorry. Can you scroll down, please. The and, baby.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says: And, baby, we really need to do some soul searching this time. We gotta figure out a plan to get us back on point. Think about it. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: Definitely.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Keep reading. I'll read Mr. Combs. Mr. Combs says: What do you feel about where we are at? Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum. You want me to read my part?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: What do you feel about us.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: I think it's more than the missing you trick. I'm talking about us. What do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I know that I'm the happiest when I can feel your love, and I haven't felt it lately because I know that you don't really want to be around me. I know that I need to work on being nicer, less moody and more like your woman. I just think that things haven't been able to turn around because we have haven't given it any time to breathe. We just keep getting pushed backwards. I believe that our love has no bounds. I'm 150 percent sure that you're the man I want to be with, and I want to be that for you too.
MS. ESTEVAO: Then he says: Yeah. That's prob. You Donatto. How much is to be Ruth you. I think he means with you. You're insecure and you don't know what it is to take care of me. I over you so much but. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said: Just know that I love you and that I'm trying. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we introduce Defense Exhibit 1405, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: This reflects a message between you and Mr. Combs on April 20, 2010, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Which is a day later, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: Call house. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: Freak-off with a girl. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were suggesting freaking off with a girl on this date, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says: What makes you want to do that. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is after the conversation about getting to a good place. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: That you discussed in your direct testimony, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Getting to a place, good place was -- OK. It wasn't in the last message.
MS. ESTEVAO: We can pull up 3A-117, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is the exhibit that the government showed you on direct, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is the exhibit that you were referencing when you said that you wanted to have that discussion with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the date is 4/20/2010, right, and April 19, 2010, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we turn back to Defense Exhibit 1405.
MS. ESTEVAO: This is the document that you did not review before today, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You didn't review this with the government, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember it, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is the document where you say -- you're proposing freaking off with a girl, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. That's what it says.
MS. ESTEVAO: When bringing up a freak-off discussion and you tell him that you want to freak off with a girl, that's what you were feeling at the time, right? That's what you were suggesting at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what I was suggesting, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified on your direct examination that around 2018 you found a photo of Mr. Combs with a woman that he had been dating for the last approximate half of your relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was Gina, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were staying at home with your parents at the time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I went back to Connecticut around then, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you made the decision when you saw that photo to break up with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: For the nth time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: End for me, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: He didn't make any threats against you at that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not to my memory, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, he was suggesting going to marriage counseling -- not marriage counseling; couples counseling, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Maybe. I don't remember.
MS. ESTEVAO: Shortly after that you started dating your now husband, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said you couldn't recall exactly when you started seeing him, I believe, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It was in 2018. Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you were breaking up with Mr. Combs over the course of several months, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I was breaking up with him -- can you repeat that or reword it.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you broke up with him in 2018, it didn't happen on one occasion and then you ceased all contact after that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There is no ceasing of all contact, but it was over when I said it was over, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said to Mr. Combs that the relationship was over many, many, many times in your relationship, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Because we were on and off, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: So there was communication after you said this is over, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you can't pinpoint exactly when that was, the final this is over, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I know when mine was.
MS. ESTEVAO: You continued to communicate with Mr. Combs regularly after telling him that it was over, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Defense Exhibit 1303. Not for the jury. Just for the witness and counsel.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said yesterday that you saw Mr. Combs in August of 2018 and you were having a closure conversation, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. We had a dinner.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at that time he was trying to convince you to go to Burning Man with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: What I remember, yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: Burning Man was something that you went to with him every year typically, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And your other friends were planning on going too, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: But they typically went?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified that from your perspective at this point you were no longer together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were seeing your now husband, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It looks like you found 1303. Can we pull that up, please. Can we jump ahead to the third --
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll allow you to review the whole thing first.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can we go back.
MS. ESTEVAO: Are you ready?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Is there another page?
MS. ESTEVAO: We can go to the next page, just for her to look at. A. OK. The next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the next page. Can we go halfway down the page here to where it says: Can I not get a chance.
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll move to admit.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, in terms of what's being admitted, I want to clarify the length of the exhibit that's being admitted.
THE COURT: What I'm seeing is a three-page exhibit. Is that correct, Ms. Estevao?
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm just moving to admit the first three pages.
THE COURT: Is there an identifier that we can use?
MS. ESTEVAO: 1303-A, please.
MS. JOHNSON: No objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Excuse me. The first four pages I would like admitted.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: No objection to the first four pages of 1303.
THE COURT: The first four pages of 1303 will be admitted and the defense will provide an exhibit that we will mark as 1303-A that will reflect those four pages only. Please proceed.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1303-A received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: I'll read Mr. Combs. Can I not get a chance to make things right. It seems like you're blaming everything on me. It's like you have anger to me. I haven't taken care of you. Can you read your messages.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not running around telling our business, but my family knows because I need their support right now. You took care of me materialistically, not where I needed it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you keep reading, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I have lived in this bubble by myself for too long. I'm too dope. You may not be happy, but maybe it's because you surround yourself with people that always take from you. I don't need you taking care of Kim, Sarah, and Gina. I needed to love you and put me first.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go up to page 3, please. Excuse me. Page 4.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read these messages, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I just don't trust anymore. That last shot put the nail in the coffin. I promised myself I wouldn't be with you anymore if you did that to me again. You lied to me. When I think to Burning Man a year ago and all the things I found out that you paid for and continued happening. I just love myself more. I'm not blaming you. Maybe I didn't try, but you wanted me to be a machine and forgive you every time. She never went away.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you're talking about the last shot put the nail in the coffin and that she never went away, you're talking about Gina, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I would think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in fact there was a photo of Mr. Combs and Gina that was posted that summer that you saw, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: That made you believe that they were still together, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Um-hum.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you say, I promised myself I wouldn't be with you anymore if you did that to me again, you promised yourself that you wouldn't allow him to cheat on you anymore and put up with it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And because of this you broke up with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And again when you say she never went away, you're talking about Gina, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: They were in a relationship that lasted for years during the course of your relationship with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: To my knowledge, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said yesterday that you saw him in August of 2018 and you were having what you called a closure conversation, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that at the time he was trying to convince you to go to Burning Man with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From what I remember, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said that from your perspective at that time you were not together anymore, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And instead you were seeing your now husband, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said that the dinner that evening -- you had dinner with him that evening, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was bringing you home afterwards?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There was an evening, yeah. Sorry. I wasn't sure -- go ahead.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that you went inside your apartment with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: My house, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm referring to the instance when you testified on your direct testimony that he followed you into your apartment and that's when he raped you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He came in, yes. But it was my house. It wasn't an apartment.
MS. ESTEVAO: Excuse me. Your house. You wrote about this alleged rape in the lawsuit that you filed against him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in that lawsuit you alleged that the rape took place in September 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said in your lawsuit that you filed that you and Mr. Combs went to a dinner at an Italian restaurant in Malibu, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: From what I remember, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's what the civil lawsuit says, right? And you said in that civil lawsuit that he forced himself into your apartment and tried to kiss you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember the exact wording, but I could tell you what happened.
MS. ESTEVAO: Something to that effect was filed in your federal complaint, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember the word forced, but maybe. I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: But the general idea that he raped you in September 2018 after an Italian restaurant date in Malibu, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said in that lawsuit that -- withdrawn. Do you recall meeting with agents and prosecutors on November 30, 2023?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I could have. I don't remember the exact date.
MS. ESTEVAO: This would be the meeting shortly after the lawsuit that you filed.
MS. ESTEVAO: And do you recall that meeting?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. But I just don't remember exactly when it was.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm referring to the first meeting that you had with government agents.
MS. ESTEVAO: And it was in New York, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was approximately two weeks after you filed your lawsuit, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And on that date you told the government that this incident occurred when Mr. Combs returned from Burning Man in September 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: So you told the government essentially the same thing that was in your civil lawsuit, that it was in September 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this time after Burning Man, right, and you said to the government that Mr. Combs was acting very strangely at that dinner, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Nice, but strangely, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your testimony is that he was acting strangely?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He was acting strangely, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is your testimony that you told the government that he was acting strangely?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't really remember that word. I don't remember that word.
MS. ESTEVAO: That's OK. In fact, do you remember that you told them that he seemed anxious?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember saying that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we say pull up just for the witness 3501-007 at page 12.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'd like to direct your attention to the paragraph in the middle, the large paragraph in the middle.
MS. ESTEVAO: Let me know when you are done.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does this refresh your recollection as to whether or not you told the government agents that Mr. Combs was acting anxious and strangely that evening?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It does sort of.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you tell them that he was acting anxious and strangely?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so, some sort of version of that.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. And you told the prosecutors that you thought his behavior might be attributed to his bipolar disorder, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You also told the prosecutors that you did not think that Mr. Combs was in his right mind because he did not respond when you told him to stop, is that correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you remember meeting with prosecutors again on April 8, 2025?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Not specifically, but I'm sure I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: Going back to your first meeting with them, you told the federal prosecutors, consistent with your lawsuit, that the rape occurred in September of 2018, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Now, April 8, 2025 you met with the government again, right, so approximately a month ago?
MS. ESTEVAO: There were many meetings in between these two, so we are skipping way ahead.
MS. ESTEVAO: So about a month ago you met with the government again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: You spent a lot of time with them preparing your testimony, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Preparing, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And the prosecutors showed you a text message from August of 2018 for the first time at this meeting, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. I have seen it on different things, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Defense Exhibit 1306, please. I believe this is already admitted and can be published.
MS. ESTEVAO: Have you seen this message before, Ms. Ventura?
CASANDRA VENTURA: No. I don't recognize it.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read it through, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: So you write to him at the top: Hit me when you can with a little heart emoji. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know who the other person is.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we back up.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recognize the number at the top to be Mr. Combs' phone number at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Where it says FB?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know that I knew it by heart.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you understand FB to stand for?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Frank Black.
MS. ESTEVAO: Which is a nickname or alias of Mr. Combs?
MS. ESTEVAO: What about CC?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That would be me.
MS. ESTEVAO: Is that a number that you had in August of 2018?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this message is from August 21, 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say to him: Hit me when you can with a heart. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he respond saying: OK. I'm in a investors conference. You good?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says: I'm calling. It's going straight to voice mail. Proud of you. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Just to scroll up to the top to your message, hit me when you can, and that's a little heart right next to it. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say: Thank you. What does he say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I know I look bad to you. I could tell I didn't turn you on yesterday. I fell off. But I'm about to get my shit together.
MS. ESTEVAO: After the prosecutors showed you this text message in April of 2025, just a month ago, you then said --
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Hold on. Let's have a brief sidebar.
(Continued on next page)
(At sidebar)
THE COURT: What are the grounds for the objection?
MS. JOHNSON: It mischaracterizes her earlier testimony that she did not recall being shown this message by prosecutors.
THE COURT: I think, Ms. Estevao, you can deal with that objection. Ask a different question.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, you may proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. Can we pull this back up, the little heart emoji one.
MS. ESTEVAO: This message from you to Mr. Combs, dated August 21, 2018, is just the day after the messages we were discussing a moment ago, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. Can you rephrase.
MS. ESTEVAO: It was after this meeting that you told the government that you were -- that the date of the alleged rape was in August 2018, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: I think we need some clarity on what you mean by the meeting. Why don't you take us back a few steps and then proceed.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the April 2025 meeting, you told the government that the alleged rape was in August of 2018, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull back up this heart emoji message.
MS. ESTEVAO: You saw Mr. Combs the day before this message, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is the heart emoji that you sent him the day after, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup. I think so. I'm not sure. What date did we look at before this, the 20th? I'm sorry.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull back up.
MS. ESTEVAO: You testified on direct that you saw him the following month by choice, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said you agreed to see him because you had been together for over 10 years, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. It was a friend's birthday.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that you saw him because you couldn't just turn your feelings off just like that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you can't actually just turn your feelings off just like that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you still had feelings for him at that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: There were still feelings there, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Whose birthday was this, the event that you saw him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: If I remember correctly, it was Andre Harrell.
MS. ESTEVAO: Who you know and Mr. Combs both know, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at that point, when you saw him and you still had feelings for him, you didn't hate him then, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is a month after August 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you don't still hate him now, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't hate him.
MS. ESTEVAO: You don't know, you said?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I said I don't hate him.
MS. ESTEVAO: Thank you. In fact, you still have love for him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I have love for the past and what it was.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up Defense Exhibit 1307. This is not evidence.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you could review it, please. Do you recognize this to be a communication between you and Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It looks like it. I don't remember it, but yeah.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, can you make sure you speak into the microphone.
MS. ESTEVAO: Sure. Sorry. Move to admit.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: I'm sorry, your Honor. I just want to see. Is this just one page?
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, two pages.
MS. JOHNSON: I'll need a moment to review the entire exhibit.
MS. ESTEVAO: There is no need to read the fourth page. We can submit a --
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, was this previously furnished to the government?
MS. ESTEVAO: I believe so.
MS. JOHNSON: It was not on the list furnished to us last night.
THE COURT: Ms. Johnson, let us know when you have finished reviewing.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, we do object to this, and we may need to be heard at sidebar.
THE COURT: Briefly, what are the grounds?
MS. JOHNSON: 412.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, can you scroll through these slowly, just for me.
MS. JOHNSON: It's page 7.
THE COURT: Let's go to page 7.
MS. ESTEVAO: We would just move to admit the first four pages to avoid this issue.
THE COURT: Just the first four pages. Ms. Johnson, any objection?
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, can you allow me one moment to confer with my team?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I think we need a sidebar to resolve this issue.
THE COURT: Right. Let's go to sidebar.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
THE COURT: What is the objection of the first four pages?
MS. JOHNSON: The objection to the first four pages is that if the exhibit is to be admitted, we think the entire exhibit should be admitted instead of just the partial part of the exhibit, and we flagged the 412 issue last night on page 7, and the defense said that they were not going to use it and withdrew the exhibit.
THE COURT: What is the basis for including the additional pages?
MS. JOHNSON: I think it's misleading if you don't include the entire exhibit.
THE COURT: Let me see the 412 message. Is it very easy to redact that one set?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
THE COURT: It's going to be admitted, but the jury will not be shown that message. To the extent the jury wants to review it, it will be only shown to them in redacted form and only used in redacted form. Is there any issue with that approach at this point to move forward?
MS. JOHNSON: To move forward that's fine. We just want to redacted version in evidence at some point today because of cross inquiries about exhibits.
THE COURT: Absolutely. Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
THE COURT: This is exhibit 1307; is that right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
THE COURT: 1307 will be admitted. Only the first four pages will be shown at this time.
(Defendant's Exhibit 1307 received in evidence)
MS. ESTEVAO: If you take a look at the date, this is August 5th, 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so four days after the last text message that we were looking at, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: The one with the little heart emoji?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he writes, Mr. Combs writes, can you call me, please, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, I'm sorry, I just wanted to be with you, we're friends, no randoms, that's not my thing, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, didn't mean to be a bitch, I just feel like we never get the time you ask for, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, cool.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we keep going, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then halfway down the next page, he says, can't wait to see you, I miss you, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, just need you to be positive and happy to see me, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, I'm on the way, all positive, can't wait to see you, too, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Going to the next page, he writes, okay -- midway down, he says, okay, five minutes away, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And we're talking about, he writes that at 5:29 a.m. UTC time, correct? Or that's what this message reflects?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at 6:53 a.m., you write, I'm so heartbroken, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And with respect to all of these timestamps, it's subject to the stipulation about the UTC time.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he writes, me, too, have a good night, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Fair to say this was a big breakup conversation between the two of you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Can you reword that.
MS. ESTEVAO: You said you're so heartbroken, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, me, too, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was four days after the text message that says, I know I look bad to you, I could tell I didn't turn you on yesterday, I fell off, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Four days after that, you're so heartbroken?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to defense exhibit 1309, please, which is in evidence. Please publish.
MS. ESTEVAO: If you could take a look at that, if you haven't already. Tell me when you're ready.
MS. JOHNSON: I have a hard copy for the witness, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may approach.
MS. ESTEVAO: We're going to go through together if you're ready.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the top you say -- and this is September 12th, 2018, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: You texted him, landed safe, how's yoga treating you. I'm assuming now it's safe to date. Let me know. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, good morning. I'm confused. Safe to date, what are you talking about, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And just going back, when you say, how is yoga treating you, what are you referring to there?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know. Yoga, it was yoga.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're aware that around that time --
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't finish reading the message. Could I finish reading it?
MS. ESTEVAO: Sure.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, if we go to page 4, that might help.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does that provide a little extra context?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It does. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go back to the first page.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you're referring to yoga here, what do you think you were referring to at the time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Well, if we go forward, he had a yoga instructor that I heard about.
MS. ESTEVAO: That he was having some sort of romantic relationship with, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go up to the top again, please. I'm sorry. Go down.
MS. ESTEVAO: So he says --
MS. ESTEVAO: Are we on page 2?
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says -- and this is still September 12th -- what does yoga have to do with me? Hit me back, please, babe, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, nothing, I hear you're dating. I didn't know. Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, I'm on the beach walking with my dad right now, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Or maybe you just have been along, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, I'm not dating, dating who, I'm not dating, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we scroll down, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, maybe you've been going on dates all along, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, baby, I'm not dating, lol, and no dates, no dinners, nothing, nobody, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, K. He says, who do you think I'm dating, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, I don't think I should even be bringing this up to you, let's just leave it alone, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're still talking about dating, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: We can go to page 5, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say -- what do you say in this first blue bubble?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I actually need to stop even caring.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you write that because in September 2018, you still did care about him, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the middle of the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, do you want to start dating? If you are, let's just talk about it, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in this message, he's asking you to talk about it, and if you were to start dating someone else, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I guess so. I don't --
MS. ESTEVAO: You're having a conversation about dating other people, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when he says, do you want to start dating, he means, to you, date other people, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because he's saying, if you are, let's just talk about it, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: As in let's have the conversation about whether or not we should just move on and see other people, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at the end of the last page, you write, if you're in LA next week, maybe we can talk. I'm just trying to take care of myself right now, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And at this point you're in New York for Fashion Week; does that sound right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't -- I don't remember at this point.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were out of town during this period of time?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. I'm not sure exactly what it was.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up defense exhibit 1313, please. It's in evidence and you can publish, please. Thank you.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, I have a hard copy for Ms. Ventura.
THE COURT: Please approach.
MS. ESTEVAO: We're going to start at the end of the third page. If you want to go to the bottom of the third page, that's where we're going to begin.
MS. ESTEVAO: You're ready?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the end of this page, if we highlight the bottom.
MS. ESTEVAO: Mr. Combs says, I don't want to have a conversation where you break up with me again. I want you to love me. I need you to love me, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Or I need to love you, rather?
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go down to the next page.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your response.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I do love you. I would just prefer not being one of your girlfriends anymore.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then halfway down the page, he writes, I need to hold you --
MS. ESTEVAO: Of the next page. Thank you.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I need to hold you, yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: And what do you say?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Let's get up tomorrow night. I'll do studio from like 6:30 until 9:00, 9:30.
MS. ESTEVAO: Just to place us in time, this is September 26th, 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he asks, can I hold you or are you just going to break up with me some more, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: The next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, we already did that, you're saying tomorrow, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, is that a yes, that I can hold you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, we can embrace lol, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: He says, lol good to know you still have a sense of humor. I can't wait to see you Cassie, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: You say, I can't wait to see you, too, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, yay. And you say, tried to call you back, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Here you say, wasn't trying to upset you and I promise I'm not being mean, I'm embracing my sanity. People have access and just showing up to the house really has me fucked up -- had me fucked up. We don't even have to talk about it. That's just what I need right now, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he says, if I can't know where you live, that's too far for me. If you want to be away from me like that, we don't have to deal with each other on any level. That's too far for me. Live your life. Whatever you need will be done as promised that's too far, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you say, I don't know what to say. I choose my sanity over everything. Today would be the first time we're seeing each other in person in a long time. I'm so peaceful right now, I want to keep it. I'm finally sleeping well and I gained weight. I don't think you understand how those two small things have made the hugest difference, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you don't say anything to the effect of, the last time we saw each other, you raped me, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And, in fact, you're saying that you want to keep peace, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he responds, I respect your sanity. It's best we just keep it moving. I'm not a stalker, no beef. I'm clearer than ever. I don't want a link. Focus on you and your sanity. I'm good. Love. Right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you said, was really looking forward to that hug, but okay, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you wanted to hug him at that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That's what I said.
MS. ESTEVAO: And in the next message, you say, I'd just rather talk in person, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: The next page, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: What do you say at the top?
CASANDRA VENTURA: And I know you're not a stalker. I wish you could just hear me out and be supportive of my growth. I'm about to call you. Really need you to answer. It's important.
MS. ESTEVAO: So when you say you'd rather talk in person, you're referring to a closure conversation, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Some form of closure, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: It suggests that it's a closure conversation and you haven't seen each other in some time, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And then looking at the next page halfway down, you write, I had --
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we go to the next page, please, and scroll up. Can we pull up defense exhibit 1376. I don't believe this is in evidence.
MS. JOHNSON: It's not, your Honor. There's a pending objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, understood. Okay. One moment.
THE COURT: Ms. Johnson, what is the objection, just remind me.
MS. JOHNSON: 412.
THE COURT: Which page?
MS. JOHNSON: One moment, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you see Mr. Combs again --
MS. ESTEVAO: You can take it down. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you see Mr. Combs again on September 27th, 2018?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm not sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Would it help to see a document that might refresh your recollection?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you pull up defense exhibit 1376, please.
THE COURT: Ms. Johnson, do you have a paper copy for the witness?
MS. JOHNSON: Yes. May I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. ESTEVAO: And I'll refer you to the second page, halfway down, and just read it to yourself.
MS. ESTEVAO: Does that refresh your recollection as to whether or not you saw Mr. Combs on September 27th, 2018?
MS. ESTEVAO: You can put the document down.
THE COURT: And let's take it down from the screen. Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when you saw him that night, did you have sexual intercourse with him?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that night when you were having intercourse with him, did you receive a FaceTime call?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And did you answer that call?
MS. ESTEVAO: Did you recognize the caller ID to be your now husband?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs noticed this call, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he noticed the name that was -- or the alias that was popping up on your phone, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And this was in the middle of your evening with Mr. Combs?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: During which you were having sexual intercourse, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Was it actually in the middle of sexual intercourse that you received this call?
CASANDRA VENTURA: We were together. I don't know if it was actually in the middle.
MS. ESTEVAO: After that evening with Mr. Combs, you told him that you had a great night with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes, you did?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Uh-huh.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes. And your now husband didn't know that you were with Mr. Combs at the time, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't know what he knew. At that point, I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You were seeing him at the time, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: At the time that you had this evening with Mr. Combs?
MS. ESTEVAO: After this incident, your now husband discovered -- at a certain point, your now husband discovered you had spent the evening with Mr. Combs, correct?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. ESTEVAO: At a certain point after this incident, your husband learned about your evening with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: At a point, but I don't -- I don't know.
MS. ESTEVAO: You didn't answer his FaceTime call that evening, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did not.
MS. ESTEVAO: Did he find out after that evening that you didn't answer his FaceTime call because you were with Mr. Combs?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Ms. Estevao, you need to rephrase these questions.
MS. ESTEVAO: You told your now husband that Mr. Combs raped you, didn't you?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: That evening, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: That evening?
MS. ESTEVAO: In September.
CASANDRA VENTURA: No, that wasn't the evening when I was raped.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your husband punched a wall at a certain point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: He did.
MS. ESTEVAO: When he learned that you were still having intercourse with Mr. Combs, right?
MS. JOHNSON: Objection.
MS. ESTEVAO: Withdrawn.
MS. ESTEVAO: When you informed him that Mr. Combs raped you, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes. I think. I don't remember exactly when that was.
MS. ESTEVAO: Your husband learned of your sexual intercourse with Mr. Combs, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you told him that Mr. Combs raped you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And when your now husband learned about in, he punched a wall, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I believe so.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified on your direct examination that this was at a friend's -- withdrawn. You kept corresponding with Mr. Combs after you saw him that evening in September, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: After that evening in September, I believe so.
MS. ESTEVAO: Yes.
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we bring up defense exhibit 1320, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the top, this is October 5th, 2018, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: Which is shortly after the late September messages we were just looking at, right? Excuse me. We were just referring to a late September night that you were having sexual intercourse with Mr. Combs, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: And Mr. Combs writes, Imma just fall back, you call me when you need me, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you responded, to be honest, I'm not sure how to even handle things to get my life to a comfortable place, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: I know that you don't want to hurt me anymore, I miss you, I feel lost without you, I'm heartbroken, I don't trust anymore, I'm sad, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And after your breakup, you're telling him that you feel lost without him, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And after your dinner in September, you don't see him for a number of weeks, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And that's because you had broken up with him, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: A month after this on November 15th, 2018, Kim Porter passed away unexpectedly; isn't that right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup, it is.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you went to the memorial service for Ms. Porter, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yup, I went.
MS. ESTEVAO: The one that Mr. Combs held at his home, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I wasn't at his home, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: Oh, in Georgia, you flew to Georgia for Ms. Porter's memorial service, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can we pull up defense exhibit 1334, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you need a minute to review this?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yes, please.
MS. ESTEVAO: Sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: It's in evidence and can be published. Thank you.
MS. JOHNSON: And I can bring over a hard copy.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MS. ESTEVAO: So, in this message, Mr. Combs says, you just left me, you not picking up, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: And this is on November 19th, 2018, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: Just following Ms. Porter's memorial service, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: Can you read your messages back, please.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't just leave you, I said goodbye a few times. I want to be there for you, but needed to get to grandma. My flight was delayed, so I'm taking off now. I need to be real with you. I know how crazy and painful this all is. And you want my support, but you've compared me to Gina the other day and the babysitter was there last night and you posted that Kim was your soulmate. What was the 11 years all about? 11 consistent years. I know you're going through a lot, but that hurt my feelings. I love you, but I'm going to my family right now. I'll probably make it Saturday with my dad. I'll hit KK. Hit me if you need me. Love you.
MS. ESTEVAO: Gina in that sentence is the Gina we were talking about before?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: The same woman Mr. Combs had been seeing for a number of years during the course of your relationship?
MS. ESTEVAO: And the babysitter here is referring to someone named Nikki, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so. I'm not really sure.
MS. ESTEVAO: The babysitter that you're referring to is someone that you suspected Mr. Combs was also seeing, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I think so, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Or having some sexual affair?
CASANDRA VENTURA: It's a vague memory, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And fair to say that you had suspicion that he was seeing this babysitter based on this message, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't even remember talking about the babysitter to be honest, but yeah, okay.
MS. ESTEVAO: And so your feelings are hurt following this memorial service, correct?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. Yup.
MS. ESTEVAO: You write, you posted that Kim was your soulmate. What was the 11 years all about. That refers to him saying after Kim's death that Kim was his soulmate, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And that was extraordinarily hurtful, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, at that time, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: Because you'd been with him for 11 years, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And he was saying that Kim was his soulmate, not you, right?
MS. ESTEVAO: And so after this message, you went to Ms. Porter's funeral, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: After this message?
MS. ESTEVAO: After the memorial service, was there a funeral service?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I'm sorry. I was just confused was this message before or after the service.
MS. ESTEVAO: Do you recall if it's before or after the memorial service?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I don't remember the day of the service.
MS. ESTEVAO: At the top, he says, you just left me. Did you leave the memorial service?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did leave the memorial service, but there were other places I left him.
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
CASANDRA VENTURA: I know. I'm just trying to clarify, even for myself.
MS. ESTEVAO: And after that memorial service, you never saw him again after that, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't see him again after that, no.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you testified that he tried to get in touch with you in various ways after that point, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Right.
MS. ESTEVAO: In fact, through some other people, correct?
MS. ESTEVAO: Including Lauren London?
MS. ESTEVAO: And your friend, Diontae Nash?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: But you rebuffed those attempts to contact you, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah. These were later on, yeah.
MS. ESTEVAO: And you never saw him again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did not.
MS. ESTEVAO: And he let you go, right? You never saw him again, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I didn't see him again. I don't know about letting me go. That's different.
MS. ESTEVAO: You never saw him again?
MS. ESTEVAO: And you got married, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: I did.
MS. ESTEVAO: To the love of your life, right?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Correct.
MS. ESTEVAO: And over the years, has Mr. Combs reached out to you?
MS. ESTEVAO: I'm sorry. What was that?
CASANDRA VENTURA: Yeah, yes.