5.Lance Jimenez — Direct/Cross/Redirect (Part 2)
544 lines(Jury present)
THE COURT: All right. Please be seated.
Members of the jury, before the break, you heard some testimony about fingerprint cards. And I am now instructing you that the questions regarding the destruction of the fingerprint cards and the answers given are irrelevant to this case and the defendant and are not to be considered by you.
All right? With that, Ms. Slavik, you may continue.
MS. SLAVIK: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MS. SLAVIK:
MS. SLAVIK: Investigator Jimenez, before the break we were talking about testing various evidentiary items that you recovered during your investigation.
Do you remember that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MS. SLAVIK: Before we wrap up this morning, I want to talk to you briefly about the interviews that you conducted in connection with your investigation.
Did you interview the owner of the Porsche?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did.
MS. SLAVIK: Who was that the owner of the Porsche?
LANCE JIMENEZ: He identified himself as Scott Mescudi.
MS. SLAVIK: Based on your interview of Mr. Mescudi, did you reach out to other potential witnesses?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did.
MS. SLAVIK: Who did you reach out to?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I reached out to one of his drivers named -- first name of Egor. I don't recall the last name. And then his personal assistant who was there on scene. And then the person who provided some -- those print cards, and then there was a --
MS. SLAVIK: Did you reach out to any individuals that did not work for Mr. Mescudi?
LANCE JIMENEZ: OK. I made attempts to reach out to people unsuccessfully.
MS. SLAVIK: Who specifically did you attempt to reach out to?
LANCE JIMENEZ: There was a suspect named by Mr. Mescudi and there was an assistant that that suspect had. I reached out to that person unsuccessfully. And there was a common female involved between the two. I reached out, made an attempt to reach out to that person.
MS. SLAVIK: Focusing on the person that you identify as the assistant, what was that assistant's name?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's in my report. I think it might have been Mary. I don't recall. I have to look at my report again.
MS. SLAVIK: You referred to an assistant of a suspect.
Do you remember that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Oh, her name was Capricorn.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, I'll object to the use of suspect.
THE COURT: All right. Let's rephrase the question.
MS. SLAVIK: Investigator Jimenez, you mentioned that you reached out to individuals who were not employed by Mr. Mescudi, is that right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MS. SLAVIK: Who, by name, did you reach out to who was not employed by Mr. Mescudi?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It was a female named Capricorn, there was an individual named Egor, I spoke about before, there was the assistant who did work for Mescudi, who I spoke about, and then there was a -- a common female between somebody who was identified.
MS. SLAVIK: Do you remember the common female's name?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yeah. Her name was Cassie Ventura.
MS. SLAVIK: So, starting with Capricorn, were you able to make contact with Capricorn?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I was not.
MS. SLAVIK: Did you attempt to contact Capricorn?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Several times, yes.
MS. SLAVIK: How many times, if you recall?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Multiple phone calls, door knocked the place of residence. Half a dozen maybe, times, attempts.
MS. SLAVIK: And when, if you remember, did you attempt to contact Capricorn?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Within -- within the immediate timeframe of that investigation. Within a couple of months.
MS. SLAVIK: You mentioned that you attempted to reach out to a woman named Cassie, is that right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MS. SLAVIK: Were you able to make contact with Cassie?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I was not.
MS. SLAVIK: How many times did you try?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Maybe a couple. I don't recall.
MS. SLAVIK: Do you remember how you tried to reach out to Cassie?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I tried to identify maybe where she lived, was unable to, telephone, didn't -- wasn't able to get through, through via telephone, and then I made an attempt through a family member of hers.
MS. SLAVIK: Were you able to reach her?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Never.
MS. SLAVIK: Now, just stepping back, Investigator Jimenez, you said that you concluded that the auto fire was deliberately set and that the Porsche was targeted, is that right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That was my opinion, yes.
MS. SLAVIK: Were any charges brought related to this auto fire?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not on my case, no.
MS. SLAVIK: Why not?
MR. AGNIFILO: I'll object to the form of the question.
THE COURT: Can you rephrase?
MS. SLAVIK: You said that you did not -- no charges were brought with respect to your case?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MS. SLAVIK: What, if anything --
What, if anything, did you need that you did not have in order to bring charges?
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. SLAVIK: Investigator Jimenez, you said that no charges were brought related to this auto fire, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not at that time, no.
MS. SLAVIK: Did you ever close the case?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not close the case.
MS. SLAVIK: What is the status of the case presently?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's listed as inactive pending anything further that may arise.
MS. SLAVIK: Nothing further at this time, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Cross-examination.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Good morning --
LANCE JIMENEZ: Good morning.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- investigator Jimenez. My name is Marc Agnifilo. I'm going to ask you some questions. If I ask you a question that you don't understand, just ask me to rephrase it and I'll be happy to do that.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Sure.
MR. AGNIFILO: You put a number of photographs into evidence this morning. I'm going to direct your attention to one particular one, which is 8C-116.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, that's in evidence. If we can put it on the screen and give it to Investigator Jimenez and the jury.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is the inside of the Porsche, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: You see a glass bottle?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You submitted that glass bottle for DNA testing?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: And it came back with a hit, as you said, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: A partial hit, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Partial hit. That this bottle contained female DNA, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's what the report said, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: When you send out DNA, you send it to an external laboratory, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Right, within LAPD.
MR. AGNIFILO: Bode Laboratories, does that name sound familiar?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't know the name of the laboratory. I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me show you something, if it's going to help. It's Defense Exhibit 850. We can put it up just for the witness and the parties.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. You see that in front of you?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah, I know.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do me a favor. If we could enlarge the top of this for the fire investigator. All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So my question is if, in this case, you sent this glass bottle out for DNA testing to Bode Technology?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Did you --
THE COURT: Hold on. Hold on. Are you trying to refresh the witness's recollection?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Then allow him to refresh his recollection.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm sorry. That's fine.
THE COURT: Then ask some questions.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So do you remember if -- not you personally, but you and the other people who were working --
THE COURT: Let's take the document down.
MR. AGNIFILO: We can take it down.
THE COURT: Ask your questions.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- were working on the fire investigation, sent the glass bottle to Bode Technologies for DNA testing?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Incorrect.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. How did that happen?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I have no idea.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you receive a report from Bode Technology?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall who the report came back from.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember seeing a report?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did a report.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Do you remember seeing a report indicating that the glass bottle tested positive for a female's DNA?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I think we've testified to that, yes, there was a partial female.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And after that, you reached out for Capricorn Clark, isn't that right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not after that. I think it was all during the same timeframe.
MR. AGNIFILO: When was the first time you reached out for Capricorn Clark?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I would imagine -- I recall maybe within a few weeks of the incident.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you have a specific recollection one way or the other?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It was within that immediate timeframe before I turned in my report.
MR. AGNIFILO: Are you sure about that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you reach out for her several times you said?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Made couple of phone calls and did a door knock at her location.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember reaching out for her in August of 2012?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's possible.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. That would have been after you got this report, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So can we look at the report and see when you would have gotten this report. Pull it back up for the fire investigator.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you recall that the report came back on or about March 22, 2012?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall that, to be honest, when it came back.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know about when it came back?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Within that first year of the investigation.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And aside from a year, can you tell us anything more specific about when the DNA report came back for the bottle that's in the car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I mean, it's -- the timeframe would be probably within, maybe, six months to a year. I don't recall.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't recall?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall when the report came back, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right.
LANCE JIMENEZ: I would have to go through, like, my previous e-mails when it was given to me.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So let's talk about Government Exhibit 8C-116.
Do you have that in front of you?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not yet, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: Put it in front of the fire investigator.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, here, we have the glass bottle that you say was dropped in through the top of the car, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And this glass bottle, when you recovered it, contained a certain amount of gasoline, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And so, your theory, as you just told us, is that this glass bottle was the source of the fire in the car, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's an opinion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And that was your opinion as a trained fire investigator?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And so, who made the decision to send this glass bottle off to be DNA tested?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, you realized it's possible that there is going to be important evidence on this bottle, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you sent it off to be tested for DNA, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you would be expecting results on that, you would want to see what those results were, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MS. SLAVIK: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's important to your investigation to know if this glass bottle comes back with DNA on it, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So this is something that you would be looking forward to seeing, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you got results back that, in fact, there was female DNA on this glass bottle, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Partial female, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Partial female. So what does that mean to you?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I have no idea.
MR. AGNIFILO: So did you do any followup? Did you figure this out?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I asked what that meant, and I was told that if I could come up with a -- maybe a sample of somebody or suspect, maybe they might be able to match. Other than that, I have no idea what that was referring to.
MR. AGNIFILO: But it was female DNA, you knew that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's what the report said, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's the only DNA that came back in this case, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: On that, yes.
MS. SLAVIK: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: To your knowledge, to your knowledge, did any other --
MS. SLAVIK: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- DNA comeback?
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MR. AGNIFILO: So this glass bottle comes back with female DNA.
Is there any other DNA that's on this glass bottle?
MS. SLAVIK: Objection.
THE COURT: You've got to rephrase the question.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: You sent a number of objects off for DNA testing, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You sent the cloth, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: You sent the bottle, as we discussed, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You have to say yes or no.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes. I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: You sent the lighter?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now I want to show you Government Exhibit 8C-122. Is that up in front of you? Do you see that there?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Do you see in the lower left-hand corner of that photograph what seems to be a black object?
Do you see that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you see a black object on -- yeah, on the passenger seat in the rear, on the rear?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know what that was?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I think it's a glove.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's a glove.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. I'm going to ask that the witness be shown what has been introduced, but not admitted yet, as Defense Exhibit 853. This is just for the witness and the parties.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is another one of the photographs that were taken that day, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You didn't discuss this one on your direct examination, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK.
MR. AGNIFILO: And we offer it as 853.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. SLAVIK: No objection.
THE COURT: 853 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 853 received in evidence)
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Can we show the jury 853.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: That's a glove, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you find a second glove?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, in the car there is the bottle, right?
You have to answer yes or no so she can write it down.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: There is the fabric, right, that was burned?
The piece of cloth, you said it was a fancy napkin or handkerchief?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And there was the liquid gasoline, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And there was this glove, this one single glove in the back seat, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Without a second glove, am I right? No second glove you found?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall the second glove.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Did you test the glove for DNA?
LANCE JIMENEZ: No, we did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Did you look at the glove? Did you examine the glove?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I believe it belonged to the owner.
MR. AGNIFILO: Belonged to the owner?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Of the car.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you ask the owner if it was his glove?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I believe so, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you ask him why there was one in the car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not ask him. It was a driving glove, according to him.
MR. AGNIFILO: Driving glove?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So let's talk about this. So the one driving glove belonging to the owner was in the back seat of this car, is that what you're telling us?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's where I observed it, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah. You observed it, and this photograph was taken of the one driving glove belonging to the owner in the back seat of the car, right?
MS. SLAVIK: Objection, your Honor, form.
THE COURT: It's overruled, but let's ...
Let's keep in mind that there may be objections to repeated questioning along these lines.
MR. AGNIFILO: I understand.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me ask you a different question.
Did you think it was significant that a single glove was in the back seat of this car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You thought it was significant enough that you talked to the owner about it, though, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you asked him if he knew about it and he said it was his glove, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's my recollection, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, so you did not send this glove for any sort of testing of any sort, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not collect the glove as evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: You didn't even take the glove as a piece of evidence?
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, do you know how the one glove would have gotten into the car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I have no idea.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you agree with me that, how far --
See, let's look at 853. You see these markings, these black kind of blotches on the console in the back of the rear seat? Do you see that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Which photo are you referring to?
MR. AGNIFILO: Looking at 853. I think it's up on the screen.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's not marked.
MS. SLAVIK: Your Honor, this is not marked.
LANCE JIMENEZ: OK. Now, I see it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you now see it?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I do now. Thank you.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you see the black sort of splotch in between the two seats in the rear of the car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: What is that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's my opinion it's the drop-down material from the canvas roof.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So the roof, right above where these black marks are, that's where the roof was cut, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: And it also had burned through.
MR. AGNIFILO: But it was cut there and it was burned there, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And your premise was that the Molotov cocktail was dropped in that part of the roof, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That was my opinion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Did you think it was a possibility that the person who was holding the Molotov cocktail would have been wearing a glove?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's possible.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Because the Molotov cocktail would get hot, right?
MR. AGNIFILO: After you set it on fire?
LANCE JIMENEZ: No, it doesn't get hot.
MR. AGNIFILO: At one point it's on fire, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: The wick is on fire.
MR. AGNIFILO: So part of is on fire, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: The cloth material would be on fire.
MR. AGNIFILO: So if I were holding a Molotov cocktail and I lit it --
MS. SLAVIK: Objection.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- my hand would be close to the fire, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It would be close to the bottle. It would be on the bottle. That's how Molotovs operate. They throw --
MR. AGNIFILO: That's not my question.
MR. AGNIFILO: My question is, if I was holding a Molotov cocktail --
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- and I lit it, my hand would be close to the flame that I lit, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Sure.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, let's look. Let's take a few steps back.
We're going to go through some of these photographs that you and your partner were good enough to take that morning. We're going to start with 8C-101 that's already in evidence.
OK. All right. When you entered the property the day of your investigation, did you go through that door?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: You never went through that door?
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's go to 8C-103. Now, I think you said that there were -- it was a long driveway and we see the driveway in this photograph, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think we see the black Porsche up front.
Do you see that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Then there is a red Mercedes, and then I think you said there was a black-colored Jeep?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: This vehicle we see on the left, a Chevy of some sort, do you know what that is?
Was that a law enforcement vehicle, or was that vehicle there --
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's the vehicle we arrived in.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's my question. That's your car.
All right. OK. Let's go to 8C-105.
There is one of the entry doors to the house, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I believe so. I think it's adjacent to the garage door.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So let's do this. Let's look at 8C-106 to orient us. That's what you're talking about, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's the one you're referring to, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's the garage. The larger door is the garage door?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And the other door is entry into the house?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall if it was actually into the house or into the garage. I don't know.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Let's go to 8C-107. This is the black Porsche, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And there is no damage on the outside of the car, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yeah. I didn't observe any damage to the outside of the vehicle.
MR. AGNIFILO: And here, you can see, we're going to have closer-up views, you can see the damage to the roof of the car, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's a tough picture. You can barely see some damage.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. We're going to see it better.
Let's look at 8C-108. All right. 8C-108, that's a -- that's the damage to the top of the car, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And does it look to you that it's two cuts?
You said there were intentional cuts that looked, to you, to be intentional into the roof?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I formed the opinion they made a cut. I don't know if they made two, but that is some burn damage that occurred from the fire, as well.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Just so the jury understands what you're saying, so the material that is sort of on the inside of the opening has -- that's burn damage.
The way that looks, that's from heat, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Can you rephrase your question?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
What's the top of the car made out of?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't know, to be honest. I'm -- I don't know Porsche material.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: So the burn damage you're talking about, though, is this material that is sort of, like, slightly discolored, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: The burn damage that we're referring to in the other photo?
MR. AGNIFILO: The one we're looking at right now.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Right now.
What is your question? I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: Where is the burn damage?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It looks like heat damage to the left side of that cut.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So heat damage is different than fire damage, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I consider it the same. I mean, it's part of fire damage.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So, from what you can tell, was this part ever on fire?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I think it got affected by the radiant heat, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That is really my question. So this damage comes from the heat from the fire inside the car. It's not your conclusion that this was on fire, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't know how extensive the fire was. But, in my opinion, heat rose from the seat of the vehicle and it caused the damage to the interior of the roof, which we showed previously pictures of.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's look at 8C-112. Wait for that to come up.
OK. So in 8C-112, we see -- what did you say this material was between the center console and the driver's seat?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Are we talking about the handkerchief?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, the handkerchief.
LANCE JIMENEZ: It looked like a cloth material handkerchief.
MR. AGNIFILO: So this is, that white thing that is partially burned, is the handkerchief, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's not all the way burned. Do you agree with me?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: It has some burn damage and some parts of it were not burned at all, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, does that mean to you that --
Well, let's look at a few more photographs, and then I'll ask you the next question.
Let's go to 8C-115. All right. Here, we see the bottle, and the bottle has fallen over to the left side, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Now, gasoline is a liquid?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It's ignitable liquid, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: It pulls -- it tends to go downward and pulling at the lowest point, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't understand the question.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's not a gas, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: You mean fumes?
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm asking you, the gasoline that you recovered was a liquid, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Inside the bottle.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And looking at the damage that you see here in 115, is it consistent with liquid gasoline pouring out of this bottle to the left and then dropping down into the seat of the car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I think it's visual inside that whole seat, where you would drop the bottle, the wick would fall, get stuck in the side. The bottle would tip over and spill more gasoline. So you would see more damage there, where the fire was burning.
MR. AGNIFILO: So the majority the damage is right near the opening of the glass bottle, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Where you see that one, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Let's look at 116. It's a little closer-up.
So, from here, you can see some of the damage is to the left of the photo, but the majority is sort of down, you know, where the seat bottom meets the back, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: You'll have to rephrase that.
What do you mean by left of the photo?
MR. AGNIFILO: So some, some of the liquid seems to go towards the steering wheel on that front seat.
Do you see that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: No, I don't see what you're talking about.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you see burn damage in the direction of the front seat from the bottle?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't see what you're referring to. You would have to point it out to me.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Let's focus on the bottle.
You see the bottle, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: There is burn damage on both sides of the opening, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Both sides of the opening of the bottle?
MR. AGNIFILO: Correct.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Meaning, like, to either side, like, if the bottle is here, to either side?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, that's right.
LANCE JIMENEZ: I see what you're saying, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Good. That was my question.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So the majority of the damage, though, is to the part of the seat where the rear seat meets the back of the seat, am I right, as opposed to it moving in the direction of the steering wheel?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes. I see what you're saying.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And my question is, that's because the gasoline is a liquid, and so it tends to go down to the -- it drops, it's affected by gravity, it goes down and pools at a low point, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't understand what you're saying, but if you're -- if you can let me elaborate what you're trying to say?
MR. AGNIFILO: Sure. Go ahead.
LANCE JIMENEZ: From my opinion, from what happened, the bottle was dropped. Where the base is, the wick got caught, which is where you see the unburned part of the wick, which was inside the bottle. The wick smoldered and the bottle flipped, and then did distribute a little bit of gasoline there. A lot of gas stayed in the bottle. You have fumes and still burning when the gas platters.
MR. AGNIFILO: Here is my question.
You can see what you call the wick between the driver's seat and the console; you see that white part right there?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: So if the --
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not in this photo, no. But yes, I know what you're talking about.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't see the white there?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not in this photo.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, if the wick falls out of the bottle, my question is, how does the fire move to this part of the seat, if the wick is already out of the bottle?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Well, you have flame disbursement from the fumes, and then you have the gas emitting the fumes, and you have the gas that spills over on this side, which were -- fumes would follow. And then there's not enough oxygen, which is why the fire, in my opinion, smoldered out. You'll still going to have some generating heat that travels up to the roof, where we saw damage to the interior.
MR. AGNIFILO: So your belief is that this bottle was dropped into that opening in the roof, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That is my opinion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And it struck some part of the seat, the front seat or the console, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's my opinion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: When that happened, the wick came out of the bottle, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's my opinion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then this bottle ends up falling to the left and depositing some of the gasoline into this area where you see a burn pattern, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That would -- that's a good -- yes. That's what my opinion is, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And my question is this. Since you are seeing that the bottle fell from the roof onto that center console area, wouldn't you consider the glove significant in the back seat?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not if the glove belonged to the owner. I'm not -- if the glove -- if the owner took off the glove and tossed it in the back seat, he said it belonged to him, so it was irrelevant to my investigation.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, did Mr. Cudi have one Porsche or more than one Porsche?
LANCE JIMENEZ: If I'm not mistaken, I think he had one in the garage.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So he had a second Porsche, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: In the garage, from what I understand, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is there any mention of the second Porsche in your report?
LANCE JIMENEZ: No. It was unrelated to this fire.
MR. AGNIFILO: So was the red Mercedes, right, and that was in your report?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Because it's in the photo.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, let's look at --
LANCE JIMENEZ: It would be like describing furniture in his house. It would be irrelevant.
MR. AGNIFILO: I've got a question for you.
Let's look at another photo that you took that day that you didn't talk about on direct examination. Defense Exhibit 852 for the witness. Defense 852 for identification.
Do you see that photo?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's the second Porsche?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes, I believe so.
MR. AGNIFILO: We offer it, your Honor.
MS. SLAVIK: No objection.
THE COURT: 852 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 852 received in evidence)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: So, Mr. Cudi had a second -- Kid Cudi, Mr. Mescudi, had a second Porsche, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's what I was informed, correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: You and your partner took a photo of it?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that's the photo we're looking at?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, what you said was that you put in the vehicles in your report that were in the photo, but you didn't put the blue Porsche in the report, did you?
LANCE JIMENEZ: The garage door was closed at the time of our arrival. It was irrelevant to my investigation.
MR. AGNIFILO: So why did you take a picture?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not take the picture. My partner did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Why, to your knowledge, why did your partner take a picture of it?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I have no idea why he took that picture.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, there's a second Porsche, though, right?
That was Mr. Mescudi's Porsche, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's my understanding.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's look at Government Exhibit 8C-106. It's already in evidence.
Here, we can see how much liquid is in the Old English bottle. You see that, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: So that, obviously, did not burn up in the fire because it's still in the bottle, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And is that significant with your premise that the wick that was on fire fell out of the bottle when the bottle tipped over to the left?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's my opinion, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Because, tell me if this is right, if there was fire inside the bottle, all of the gasoline would have burned up?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Not necessarily.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK.
LANCE JIMENEZ: You need a proper oxygen, mix of fuel and oxygen.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you don't know how much gas -- you don't know how full this bottle was when it was dropped, you have no idea how much gas leaked out of the bottle?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know how much gas was left in the bottle?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you said that you tried several times to contact Capricorn Clark and you were not able to, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said you tried several times to contact Cassie Ventura, am I right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you never made contact with her either?
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And were these contacts after you got the results from Bode Labs that there was female DNA on the bottle?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't recall. It might have been before that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you have anything in your report indicating exactly when you reached out for Ms. Ventura?
MR. AGNIFILO: You have no indication in your report as to when you did that, correct?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MS. SLAVIK: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can you tell us a month?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It would have been within that -- probably that first few weeks maybe
MR. AGNIFILO: Are you sure?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You're sure?
LANCE JIMENEZ: That's my recollection.
MR. AGNIFILO: So tell me about how you recall.
Where were you when you called? Tell us everything you recall about making these phone calls.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Sure.
MS. SLAVIK: Objection, argumentative.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: Go ahead.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Sure.
I reached out, left messages, got no response, got no return call. I believe Capricorn's brother answered the phone. I got in an argument with him for me to leave her alone, she wanted nothing to do with me, she wanted nothing to do with the investigation. She wanted -- and he and I got in an argument about it. He was impeding my investigation. I had questions for her, strictly just as an investigative side. She wasn't in any trouble. And I got in a verbal confrontation with him over the phone, on her phone, and that was the last of my attempts.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And with Ms. Ventura, did you ever make contact with her in any sort?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: How many times did you try?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Maybe a couple. I did reach out to her -- I was able to contact her father, I believe, if I am not mistaken.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who is a fireman, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: But Ms. Ventura never called you back?
LANCE JIMENEZ: She never returned -- I asked and pleaded with him to reach out to her to see if she would answer some questions. He said he would let her know I just wanted to talk to her on the investigative side. And she never reached out to me.
MR. AGNIFILO: And nobody called you back?
LANCE JIMENEZ: She did not call me back.
MR. AGNIFILO: And in regard to Mr. Mescudi, as soon as he told you that the one glove in the car was his, you didn't do any more investigation as to that glove, right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't think I have any more questions, but let me check.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember if you put anything in this report about this single glove you found in the back seat of the car?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I don't think I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: One more second, judge.
Thank you, sir. Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. Redirect.
MS. SLAVIK: Just very briefly, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. SLAVIK:
MS. SLAVIK: Investigator Jimenez, you were just asked a series of questions about the glove that was found in the back of the car.
Do you remember that?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes, of course.
MS. SLAVIK: And you didn't collect that glove as evidence?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MS. SLAVIK: Why not?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I did not.
MS. SLAVIK: Can you remind the jury why not?
LANCE JIMENEZ: It was irrelevant to my investigation. The owner said it belonged to him.
MS. SLAVIK: At any point when you spoke to the owner, that's Mr. Mescudi, did you have the impression that he did not want you to investigate this issue?
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MS. SLAVIK: You spoke with Mr. Mescudi, is that right?
LANCE JIMENEZ: Yes.
MS. SLAVIK: Can you remind the jury when you first spoke with Mr. Mescudi?
LANCE JIMENEZ: The day of the incident.
MS. SLAVIK: And how soon after you spoke with Mr. Mescudi did you reach out to Capricorn?
LANCE JIMENEZ: I made attempts, I think, within a weeks after that.
MS. SLAVIK: To be clear, was the reason that you reached out to Capricorn because you received a DNA report?
MS. SLAVIK: Nothing further, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Investigator Jimenez.
(Witness excused)
LANCE JIMENEZ: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: The government may call its next witness. Ms. Comey, we're at 12:00. We can go on for a little bit or we can take a break. It's your election.
Would you want to take the lunch break now, or would you rather get your direct started, and then maybe there's a good stopping place about 20 minutes.
MS. COMEY: I think we can get started, your Honor.
THE COURT: The government may call its next witness.
MS. COMEY: The government calls Deonte Nash.
Your Honor, may I retrieve the binder?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. COMEY: Thank you. DEONTE NASH, called as a witness by the Government, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Could I please ask you to give the court your first and last name and spell your first and last name into that microphone.
LANCE JIMENEZ: Deonte Nash. D-e-o-n-t-e N-a-s-h.
MS. COMEY: May I inquire, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. COMEY: Thank you.