3.Capricorn Clark — Cross/Redirect/Recross (Part 2)
2,260 linesCROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Good morning, Ms. Clark.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Good morning.
MR. AGNIFILO: Nice to see you again.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Nice to see you.
MR. AGNIFILO: My name is Marc Agnifilo. I know you know that. I'm going to ask you some questions. If I ask you a question that you don't understand, or a question that you would like me to rephrase, all you need to do is say can you rephrase that or I don't understand that and that's what I'm going to do. Okay?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So this is actually the second time we're meeting, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And the first time we met, I don't know if you remember, it was April 10th, 2024?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And at the time you had a lawyer in Los Angeles, Bryan Freedman; do you remember him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: Well-known, highly regarded lawyer, from your perspective?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I met with you, Ms. Geragos met with you, and a third lawyer named Jonathan Davis met with you, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you and Mr. Freedman. And you had a friend there, do you remember who that was?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. John McLaughlin.
MR. AGNIFILO: John McLaughlin. So if I remember right, it was Mr. Freedman, yourself, Mr. McLaughlin on one side of the table, I think it was me, Ms. Geragos, and Jonathan Davis on the other side of the table?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And one of the things -- we talked about a lot of things that day, right? You just --
CAPRICORN CLARK: Oh, yes. Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Great. One of the things we talked about, and you just told the government this, you wanted to come back and work with Mr. Combs as his chief of staff?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We discussed it, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you mentioned that; you brought that up?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And tell me if this is right, what you said was you've always been able to take care of him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't recall saying that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Do you remember saying he wouldn't be in this mess had he kept me around?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I probably said something like that, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And just so we're clear, do you remember, only if you remember, do you remember Ms. Geragos was taking notes?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You saw her, you saw her taking notes?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Handwritten notes?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said -- tell me if this is right, you said you didn't think that Ms. Ventura was good for Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said that at the meeting, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you believe that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Do me a favor, tell the jury in your words why you think that's true?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I just felt they were toxic as a couple.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And tell me if this is right, when you first met -- and you called him Puff, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you never called him Sean?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Never.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you never called him Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Never.
MR. AGNIFILO: You called him Puff?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Puff.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So if it's okay with you, just since that's what you called him, can we call him Puff? Is that all right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah, I just kind of go with whatever is being asked, but absolutely, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. All right.
THE COURT: Let's call him Mr. Combs.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay, Judge. That ends that.
MR. AGNIFILO: We're going to call him Mr. Combs.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mr. Combs.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when did you first meet Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: In 2002 when I moved to New York.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And before you worked with him, before anything else, you and he were friends?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: You guys hung out a lot?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you had a mutual friend?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And remind the jury of that person's name?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Jeanette DeLoan.
MR. AGNIFILO: Jeanette DeLoan. And to your knowledge from what you could see, did Ms. DeLoan and Mr. Combs have any kind of romantic relationship from what you could tell?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I knew that they had a past --
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: -- relationship. They were older than me. They were -- used to, years before had.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: But you guys would all hang out?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Platonic, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah. Platonic. And just to be clear, you and Mr. Combs have always been platonic?
CAPRICORN CLARK: 1,000 percent.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you started as friends?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So tell the jury about your friendship. Tell us how it started. Bring us back to 2002 and tell us what it was like.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I had moved to New York. I was working in advertising. I was living in the Bronx. Hated the Bronx. My friend Jeanette, I met her through a mutual -- my roommate had a girlfriend and they were friends and we kind of got closer than the girlfriend, because they were vegans and whatever. Whatever. So me and Jeanette, we formed a friendship, and she would -- she went out a lot. She was like a popular, New York City, Lower East Side girl, New Yorker. And she would hang out with different people, but she would often hang out with Mr. Combs and would invite me. And then we just sort of start hanging out, us three as like a little friendship group.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you and Mr. Combs and Jeanette had fun?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. And you would hang out quite a bit?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Back in the day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Definitely.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Do you remember could it have even been earlier than 2002 that you met Mr. Combs? And I know we're going back two decades. I'm just -- could it have been 2000 or 2001?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Well, I moved to New York in September of 2000.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right.
CAPRICORN CLARK: And then in -- and then 2001 was the World Trade Center thing. I don't remember exactly when, but I know that it wasn't necessarily my first year. I met him a little bit after I moved there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it. Got it. And when you first met Mr. Combs, he wasn't doing any drugs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I mean, ecstasy.
MR. AGNIFILO: Was he doing ecstasy when you met him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not when I met him.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, I don't mean at that time. I mean in that time period.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah. In that time period.
MR. AGNIFILO: You saw him doing it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Like socially. One night at Daddy's House I think I saw him do it, in the lounge.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. But I'll ask you about Mr. Combs the same question that my colleague asked you about Ms. Ventura. As time went on, you saw that Mr. Combs was doing a lot more drugs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Absolutely.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you, with the exception of a few years where you kind of were away from him, you were his friend from 2002 to 2004, right? You have to answer yes so she can --
CAPRICORN CLARK: Oh. Yes. Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And then you worked for him from 2004 until 2012 but with a little break in the middle?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Couple of breaks, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And then you came back in 2016 and 2017?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So from what you could see, from your vantage point, is it fair to say that you saw that he started doing a lot more drugs over time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And is it also fair to say that he started doing more drugs after he started being with Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Fair.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And Cassie was doing more drugs too as time went on?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And from what you could see, they were doing drugs together?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, getting back very briefly to our meeting in April 2024. You thought that if you could go back and be the chief of staff, you could be helpful to him and his business, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That was a discussion.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And when you say it was a discussion, do you remember you actually saying that to Teny and myself in front of your lawyer Mr. Freedman?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I remember discussing it with you guys, yes, in front of Bryan.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Bryan is Bryan Freedman?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Thanks. And did you authorize Mr. Freedman to have further discussions with Mr. Combs' lawyers about the possibility of you coming back as chief of staff?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know if I authorized them. And I don't know that there was anything discussed outside of that room to my knowledge, but he was my lawyer. I don't know what he might have discussed with you all.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Because it was very nonprocedural. It was lawyer to lawyer versus a letter or something.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. And do you recall at the meeting it was said to you that there was a criminal investigation going on of Mr. Combs, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. By the time we had the meeting in April, there had been search warrants executed on two of his homes; you knew that, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you remember being told that it would be impossible for you to be given a job in the middle of the investigation; do you remember something along those lines?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I don't want to get into anything that Mr. Freedman said to you. So I can't ask the next question. Okay. So getting strictly to the meeting, to the meeting when we were all together. Do you remember that being discussed? And let me ask you specifically. Do you remember saying that would be very difficult to do, to bring you on because of a pending investigation?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not remember.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And I'm not trying to -- do you remember telling Mr. Combs that you had a crush on him even going back to your -- when the time when you guys were friends?
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. I am going to ask just to show to the witness Defense Exhibit 946. This is just for the witness and the parties. And if we can blow up.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can you read that? Is that big enough for you?
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, can you read that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, I can see it.
THE COURT: Are you able to read it? Okay. Take a second. Read it and let us know when you're done.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah. Read the top blurb and let me know when you're done.
MR. AGNIFILO: And, Ms. Clark, I'm also told if you have any trouble reading anything on the screen, there's a binder next to you.
CAPRICORN CLARK: No. I can see it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So when you finish reading it, just look up at me and that will tell me that you're done. Okay. All right. So do you remember telling him that you had the biggest crush on him before you started working for him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember this text.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Can we put it back up for a second.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is this a text between you and him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It looks like it, but I don't remember this text.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Do you recognize the phone number attributed to you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Do you recognize the phone number attributed to him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, but it could be his number. I don't know this number.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: We ask that it be admitted?
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, hearsay and 403. And I don't believe they've authenticated it. She couldn't identify the number.
THE COURT: And what's the response on hearsay?
MR. AGNIFILO: None of it is offered for the truth. It's state of mind. And the witness's recollection wasn't refreshed. So I've offered it, but nothing here is offered for the truth.
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, I think it's clearly being offered for the truth. There's no response other than the witness's text message.
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo, there was an issue raised with respect to authentication, so why don't you try --
MR. AGNIFILO: We had a stipulation. Okay. Hold on one second. We have a stipulation on authenticity.
THE COURT: Ms. Steiner?
MS. STEINER: Can we have a side bar, your Honor.
THE COURT: Very brief.
(Continued on next page)
(At sidebar)
MR. AGNIFILO: I know you have a two lawyer rule at side bar, and I know we have been breaking it. So I'm guilty.
THE COURT: Well, it's like Who Wants to be a Millionaire. You get a few lifelines, but you're running out.
MR. AGNIFILO: Great.
MS. SHAPIRO: Judge, I have to do something on this trial.
THE COURT: Ms. Steiner.
MS. STEINER: Yes, your Honor. The issue here, the reason the government is objecting is because this witness is not sure what these numbers are. So it's a relevance issue to this witness. She herself can't be at -- you know, can't know who this conversation is between in any definitive way.
THE COURT: Well, if there's not -- you're not objecting on authentication grounds, right?
MS. STEINER: Just one moment.
MS. COMEY: I take defense counsel's representation that this is covered by one of the stipulations that this came from Mr. Combs' devices or iCloud accounts?
MS. GERAGOS: That's right.
MS. COMEY: If it's covered by that stipulation, we're not arguing it's not from his phone. The issue for 401 and 403 purposes, this witness doesn't recognize it to be a conversation she had.
THE COURT: Well, she doesn't recall the conversation, but if there's no authentication objection, then it is what it appears to be, and the parties have stipulated that it is in fact authentic communication from Mr. Combs' phone. So the question is, is it inadmissible hearsay. And Mr. Agnifilo says it goes to her state of mind. And I've reviewed the message and it does appear to go purely to her state of mind. So that overcomes the hearsay objection. So at that point, there would be a 403 issue. So on 403 grounds, what's the argument?
MS. STEINER: I think that there's the probative value of this is so low, that the risk of confusing the jury with a document that she is not quite sure who the communication is between is high. It would be one thing if she could even know who the parties are in the conversation, but she's not sure.
THE COURT: Understood. I think you can ask a couple questions to resolve that particular issue.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
THE COURT: Of who the people are on this communication.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
THE COURT: To address the, I suppose it's the 401, 402 issue. As to 403, why is this probative? What's it probative of?
MR. AGNIFILO: It's probative. I think it undermines her entire direct testimony that she was the subject of all these horrific threats.
THE COURT: So ask those questions and you can seek to offer it again.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court; jury present)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: So on top you see a phone number where it says cap new new; do you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's your phone number?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That is my number.
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, could you pull that microphone over. It might have gotten pushed to the side. Thank you. A. I do. That is my number.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then the green, the green blurb, it says PD iPhone; do you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I see it, but I don't recognize that number.
MR. AGNIFILO: Were you communicating with Mr. Combs by text around this time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was -- I did text him in 2021.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you don't recognize the numbers, but you see it says PD iPhone, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I see it says PD iPhone, but I don't know that number. I don't recognize the number.
MR. AGNIFILO: The numbers?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, we offer it.
THE COURT: What's the number?
MR. AGNIFILO: Oh, it is 946.
THE COURT: 926.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, 946, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. Defense Exhibit 946 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 946 received in evidence)
MR. AGNIFILO: So now we can play it for the jury.
MR. AGNIFILO: So the first blurb there, it says: Totally unrelated to our current conversation, but did you ever know that I had the biggest crush on you before I started working for you. Do you see that there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I see it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Then you go on to say: We hung out all the time, I played it super cool. Jeanette might be the only one who knew. Do you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And who is the Jeanette that is being discussed there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It's reading as my friend Jeanette DeLoan.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that's the Jeanette DeLoan that you were talking about to the jury a couple minutes ago, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't think you knew. I couldn't tell if it was mutual, I just knew for sure that you liked to have me around. That's what you write, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's what it says I wrote, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you have any memory of this at all?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I really don't.
MR. AGNIFILO: No?
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you reach out to Mr. Combs a lot in June of 2021?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know what month it was, but I knew I was reaching out to him to try to talk to him.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. But you see there's a reference to Jeanette, Jeanette DeLoan, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that's the person you talked about, that's your friend, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mm-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the friend that introduced you to Mr. Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: True.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you go on to say: Sometimes I wonder did we misuse all that dope chemistry; do you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I see that.
MR. AGNIFILO: It was super fun back then. The SJC days. What's SJC days.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Sean, Jeanette, Capricorn.
MR. AGNIFILO: So is that a term that you used a lot, the SJC days?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: All of us did.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Sean, Jeanette, Capricorn. And what were the Sean, Jeanette, Capricorn days exactly?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Before I worked for him.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when you guys were just friends?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: We called you Choc, short for chocolate. Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mm-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is that true?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And who called him Choc?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Jeanette.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. I was just thinking about them nights before everything. So nice. Great memories. Twenty years ago. Time is wild. You see that there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I see it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So we can take it down.
MR. AGNIFILO: So before you ever worked for him, am I right that you liked him? Forget about crushes for the time being; you liked him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I liked him as a friend.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. You liked him as a friend, right? Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, as a friend.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm going to keep doing that to you.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm sorry. Yes, I liked him as a friend.
MR. AGNIFILO: You also respected him, didn't you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: He was, even in 2001, 2002, 2003, he was starting to be a pretty accomplished businessman; is that fair to say?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he was doing things in the worlds of music and fashion that you respected; am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: True.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, tell us your background up to that point. You said where did you work, you worked at Def Jam back in the day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: My first job was an internship at Def Jam.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you said that's kind of like -- that's like the start of hip hop, that's like the birthplace of everything that became hip hop?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Like back like Run-DMC type thing, like all back that far or not that far?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not that far. I'm not that old, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Well, I am.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm more Foxy Brown, Redman, Method Man, Jay-Z days.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it. Got it. And how did your friendship with Sean Combs proceed in 2002, 3, going to 2004?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just super platonic. He had his girlfriends around. We'd go all hang out, whoever, you know, me and Jeanette would come. Jeanette would go sometimes by herself and we would go to clubs or go to dinners. Or he was getting an award, he would invite us to when he was getting an award or something. You know, very casual.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Fair to say because you've been close with him for many, many years, he had more free time back then; does that sound right or no?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know about free time because he still seemed busy.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. He was still working hard?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, how did you come to start working for him in 2004 exactly?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I get the call from a head hunter.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And was this -- and tell me if this is right. Was this the time when the head hunter is like, there's a job for an entertainment tycoon in music and you knew who it was?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell the jury that story.
CAPRICORN CLARK: So I was -- I was working in advertising and then September 11th happened, and then I went to a film company called Crossroads. Awesome people. They paid off my student loans. They were great. And I had put my résumé on Monster. It was like a new website at the time where you could upload your résumé, similar to I guess whatever the one is now. And I was at the new job and I got a random call from this company called The Jennifer Group, and they were like, hey, we found your résumé on Monster and you have the criteria -- you had all the job experience that is needed for this fashion, entertainment tycoon.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And when they said those words to you, fashion, entertainment tycoon, what went off in your head?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I asked them, I said do you mean Sean Combs.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: And they were like how did you guess that. And I was like, well, you described somebody very specific.
MR. AGNIFILO: And because at that point in time, when they used those words, Sean Combs is who you thought of?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That is who I thought of and I was right, the way they described him, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. And then you called Mr. Combs directly; am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what did you say to him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I said, hey, I just got a call from a head hunter. They want me to work for you. And I was like are you hiring for an assistant. And he was like yeah, would you work for me. And I was like I don't know. What's the job, like what is it. And then we talked about, you know, the job.
MR. AGNIFILO: He hired you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Huh?
MR. AGNIFILO: And he hired you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Well, I met with some people and they liked me and I guess he called around a couple people and he hired me.
MR. AGNIFILO: So tell us a little bit about the process. You said you met with a few people. Tell us what you remember. And this is back in 2004, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us what you remember about the hiring process?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I remember meeting a couple people. I don't know who all they were, but I know for sure Vashta was one of them.
MR. AGNIFILO: Vashta, last name?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Vashta Dunlap.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Met with a couple people. I guess he asked them what they thought of me, and then me and him had a conversation.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what was Vashta Dunlap's position, if you recall?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I guess it was like vice president of human resource.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So then you started working with him in 2004; am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you recall if that was the year that he started to play Raisin in the Sun?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It is exactly. He was on Broadway when I started.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And tell me if this is right -- let me back up. Were you impressed that he was acting in a Broadway play?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I guess. I wouldn't say I was impressed, but I thought it was pretty cool.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Why was it cool?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Because he's thriving. He's accomplishing dreams. He's music producing. He got a business. He wanted to act. He's on Broadway. Broadway was very strenuous. I was, you know -- show every day, two shows on Saturday.
(Continued on next page)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And he had a prominent role, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He was the star.
MR. AGNIFILO: He was the star of the show?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. He was also involved in something called the "Vote or Die!" campaign?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us about that.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, one day we were leaving the show on a Saturday, in between shows, and he was, like, I have an idea. What do you think of, like, citizen change or something. And I was like, Oh. He was like, Voter, and he went through a couple of revolutions. And he said, "Vote or Die!" I was like, Oh. And he came up with "Vote or Die!" in the car in between shows one day.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is something that you kind of, like, kind of workshopped the name or the concept together?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wouldn't say that. I was just a sounding board for what he was coming up with.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And 2004 was the year of a presidential election, do you remember?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. Let's keep moving.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: So I want to talk about the "Vote or Die!" campaign. You said you were a sounding board?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And this came to pass, right; this thing actually happened?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It did.
MR. AGNIFILO: What was it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was a voter initiative, voter drive.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what, if any, role did you have in it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just shadowing him as it related to the movements for the initiative.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Did you offer your opinions of ways of making the "Vote or Die!" campaign better or more effective?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember. I know that my primary job then was to get the celebrities and those T-shirts and do the photo shoot.
MR. AGNIFILO: So it was somewhat celebrity focused, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That was your part of it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: What did you do in terms of getting celebrities for campaign?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I would call them and explain that Puff wanted them to come do a photo shoot to support this voter initiative he was working on.
MR. AGNIFILO: All sorts of folks came out?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: And tell me if this is right. I don't want to put words in your mouth. These sorts of things made you believe that the job you had was special?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, I don't know that it made me think the job that I had was special. It made me think that I was with a, um, person who knew how to execute their ideas. And I like people who know how to follow through.
MR. AGNIFILO: So he knows how to follow through, right? But following it through alone doesn't get you to star on a Broadway show, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And so how long had you been working for Mr. Combs before this whole thing of the jewelry going missing takes place?
CAPRICORN CLARK: If I started in, I think it was April -- April, May, June, July -- it had to be between July -- it will be, like, like, four, four months. It had to be after the 4th of July. That's where he wore it, when we had the Declaration of Independence at his house and the white party in the Hamptons.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us about that. The Declaration of Independence at his house in Hamptons?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: What was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The white party. It was held at his home in the Hamptons that year. It was a little bit more elaborate due to the "Vote or Die!" initiative.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So there was a sort of a political kind of angle to it? To be fair, one more yes or no.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah. Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And so when -- I might have lost you. When did the jewelry going missing coincide timewise with the 4th of July party in the Hamptons?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was shortly thereafter because it was still out on loan from Jacob the Jeweler.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Got it. I want to make sure I get this right. You said that the jewelry was with you, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then, all of a sudden, the jewelry wasn't with you anymore?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Right.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you didn't know where it was?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, if I understood your answers correctly, you made a phone call to the folks back at 1440, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Which is the main office at the time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And I think what you said, you said on direct is, make sure you search everyone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Those were your words?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Make sure you search everyone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And why did you think everyone should be searched?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Because the bag was missing from the office.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And you were taking this seriously, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And to your knowledge, did many people, many staff members, get lie detector tests?
CAPRICORN CLARK: To my knowledge, only one other person.
MR. AGNIFILO: Mike B?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who is Mike B?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mike B was his stylist.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you and Mike B discuss this lie detector test business?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, I only remember him being there, like, the first day. We discussed it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Mike B?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, Michael B. The reason he was there is because me and him went down to the basement level -- I mean, not the basement -- the street level of 1440 before the day got too deep in it, and we got a manicure.
MR. AGNIFILO: You and Mike B did?
CAPRICORN CLARK: At the nail shop. We didn't go together. We just happened to both go.
MR. AGNIFILO: When does this relate to the lie detector test?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The lie detector test was the next day.
MR. AGNIFILO: The next day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, at the time that you and Mike B go and do this, had either of you had the lie -- let me -- withdrawn. You had not had your lie detector test?
CAPRICORN CLARK: By when?
MR. AGNIFILO: When you went and got your nails done?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The jewelry was still in my purse at the nail shop.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. All right. My question, though, is: Did you and Mike B ever talk, you and Mike B with each other, about these lie detector tests?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I think we talked on the first day. I don't remember how or where, but I think I do remember talking to him because I remember seeing him.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember Mike B telling you that it takes a half an hour?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember that.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you're saying that you, you got lie detector tests five days in a row all day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, five days week, every day for five days, all day, you were taking a lie detector test?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: With this guy who was five times as wide as you are?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I have that right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said that the building locked from the outside?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The person locked it with a key from the outside, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So this building --
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- the building had a lock where you could lock people into the building from the outside?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And you were on the sixth floor, right, you said?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you were locked in the building because this New York City building locked from the outside?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We were locked in. When we came in, someone locked it as we waited for the elevator.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Whoever was with Paul, whatever security guard was sitting out in the car.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And so you said that Paul brought you to the five times as wide as you man, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And then Paul did not stay for the lie detector test portion of the day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And that is true for each of the five days?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you were all hooked up to the lie detector test equipment all day for five days?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not all day. He would unhook me to review the test.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And this man, you had no idea who this man was other than the description you gave us; you have no idea who he is?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: Never saw him before the first day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: Never saw him after the fifth day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't know what relation he has to Mr. Combs in any way, shape, or form, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said you yourself didn't speak to Mr. Combs during the five days that you're getting these lie detector tests, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's true.
MR. AGNIFILO: And after the five days, the man giving the lie detector test says that it's inconclusive?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Well, he doesn't -- he did it after every test.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. It's inconclusive?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: How many hours a day would you say that you were hooked up to the lie detector machine?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Like, until, like, a regular getting off time, five, six o'clock.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. What time did you get hooked up and what time did you get unhooked up?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Like, ten.
MR. AGNIFILO: You got hooked up?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Ten to, like, five, six. Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you were hooked up the whole time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wasn't hooked up the whole time. I would take the test, he would unhook me, we would review it, we would do it again.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So how many individual lie detector tests did you get?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I didn't count, but I know I kept doing it every day.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And who -- did you complain to anybody about the lie detector test?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Paul, but no one else.
MR. AGNIFILO: When you got hired, did you speak to someone from human resources?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Vashta.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you call Vashta and say, I've been locked in a New York City building that locks from the outside for five days, I don't -- I get this is some kind of violation? Did you do that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You spoke to Vashta from time to time, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Vashta was approachable, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Futile conversations, but yeah, she was approachable.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You knew where her office was, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: You knew that she had a working telephone, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And you never called Vashta to say, You should know an employee of this company is being kidnapped, locked in a building of New York City that locks from the outside on the sixth floor, being given lie detector test after lie detector test every day for five straight days; you never had that conversation?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not.
MR. AGNIFILO: Then how long did you continue to work for the company after the five days of lie detector tests?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I worked for him for maybe another couple months. Not very long.
MR. AGNIFILO: The lie detector tests were 2004, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You didn't you work all of 2005 and all of 2006 with the company?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did, but I got fired in 2004.
MR. AGNIFILO: You got fired in 2004?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: When was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Before -- between the lie detector test and his birthday.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So you got fired in 2004?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You're sure?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And what were you fired for?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Over his girlfriend at the time, Erica *Hugh.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you got fired over another girlfriend?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then how long were you not working for the company?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Like, three or four weeks.
MR. AGNIFILO: Three or four weeks?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So tell us how that worked. So you get fired?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: For three or four weeks?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And then after three or four weeks, how did you get unfired?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, I was happy to be fired. I was getting rest. I rested for the three weeks. Um, I got a call from Norma Augenblick. It was time to do the 35th birthday party at Cipriani. Norma's stipulation was if he was going to work on the party was, I'm not doing this party unless Capricorn is doing the celebrity guest list. She and he called and said, Look, will you come back to do the celebrity list for Puff's birthday at Cipriani? We will pay you. OK. I'll come do the celebrity list. And that's how I came back.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So, after the three or four-week hiatus, you come back?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then you continue to work the rest of 2004?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: All of 2005?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: And all of 2006?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not all of 2006.
MR. AGNIFILO: We'll get there in a second. Were you his personal assistant during this period of time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: For a couple of months, and then my title was changed.
MR. AGNIFILO: You became a personal liaison?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. What are the differences in the job descriptions?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Nothing.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And then you stayed until 2006 and you left in 2006?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you left to make more money, isn't that right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I left because he pushed me out of his house.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember telling the government that you left to make more money?
CAPRICORN CLARK: In 2006, I left because he pushed me out of his home.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. When you left, where did you go?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Jive Samba.
MR. AGNIFILO: And did you have that job already lined up when you left?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I got it after.
MR. AGNIFILO: And were you making more money?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. How much more money were you making?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I believe I was making 90,000 at Jive.
MR. AGNIFILO: And when you left Combs' company, how much money were you making?
CAPRICORN CLARK: For Combs, I was making 65,000. When I went to Jive, I was making 90,000.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, in 2006, you're making 65,000 at Combs, right? You leave, and then you go to Jive and you're making 90,000?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you stayed at Jive for how long?
CAPRICORN CLARK: About a year.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And why did you leave Jive and come back to Combs, which is what you did, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So, what happened at Jive, why did you leave Jive?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I had gotten two number one albums, one for R Kelly and one for Ciara. And I had beat him on the Hot 100 chart, and he was impressed, if I could use that word. And he said, You did really good. I'm starting a clothing line. I would love for you to come and work for me. You don't have to work with me, you can just work at one of my companies.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And so then, in 2007, you came back?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And when you say you didn't have to work for him, you were working for his clothing line, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: What kind of contact did you have with him in 2007, 2008?
CAPRICORN CLARK: While I was at Sean John?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Same level of contact.
MR. AGNIFILO: Quite a bit, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: He relied on you a lot?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: What you're telling me, and I'll use your word, he was impressed with your abilities, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: You asked about the job. He was impressed with what I had done at Jive Samba.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Aside from that, didn't he tell you very often that he was impressed with your ability to see things and be a brand -- have good concepts about brand marketing and things like that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I think, generally, my resume reflects how awesome he thought I was. I worked for him in very many roles over a long period of time. I think I was a really good employee for him.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he would tell you that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He would.
MR. AGNIFILO: He would tell you how awesome you were, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Sometimes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Maybe he wouldn't use the word awesome?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He would not use the word awesome.
MR. AGNIFILO: But, suffice to say, he let you know that he thought you were talented and hard-working and dedicated and effective?
CAPRICORN CLARK: True.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And so, you knew, you always knew that that's what he thought, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's what I --
MR. AGNIFILO: And you worked hard for him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: And from what you could see, a lot of the people in this orbit worked hard for him, right? You saw that. Not all of them, but a lot of them?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't think they worked as hard as me, but yes, people were working hard.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Let's talk about you for a second. You worked hard for him because you believed in what you were doing, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I believed, coming from my background, without finishing college, that it was another form of business school if I could make it through.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Can you explain what that means? Tell us what you mean as a form of business school.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Separate of all of this stuff, I did learn a lot of stuff from Puff -- I mean, Mr. Combs. He -- he has ideas. He knows how to execute. He is tenacious. He wanted to break the glass ceiling as it related to what we were allowed to do as black people in the business world, and that was -- it helped, when you're working so hard, to be working with somebody who would, um, match wits with you on the fervor to be successful.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Let me unpack a little bit of what you said. Do you need a minute?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I'm fine, sir. Sorry. I mean, this is a very complicated ...
MR. AGNIFILO: I got it.
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo, we're going to take a break in a few minutes, so when you get to a good landing place?
MR. AGNIFILO: We can do it now, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. We're going to take our lunch break. We'll be back at 1:00 p.m. Thank you, members of the jury. Once again, don't talk about the case with each other. Don't look up anything about the case. And we'll see you back here at 1:00. All rise.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: All right. Ms. Clark, we'll be back at 1:00 p.m. You. Are not to have any conversations or discussions of any kind with the government. All right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: All right. We'll see you back here at 1:00.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Thank you.
(Witness temporarily excused)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Anything to raise from the government, Ms. Steiner, or Ms. Comey, or Ms. Slavik?
MS. STEINER: Ms. Slavik.
MS. SLAVIK: Your Honor, just with respect to Investigator Jiminez's testimony, the government just would request a ruling from the court. If the court overrules the government's objection, I think there are certain things that we would want to bring out on direct.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. SLAVIK: So, for the reasons that we have just discussed earlier this morning, the government submits that this sort of DNA testimony that the defense plans to elicit is not proper under 403, 702, and all the relevant hearsay rules. And, for those reasons, the government requests the court to preclude such line of questioning.
THE COURT: All right. The government's objection is overruled. This is not DNA evidence or DNA testimony in the conventional sense. And as the morning has been progressing, we have looked at authorities addressing this DNA evidence and it's of a different brand. In this case, there is a report that, I don't think the government contests, would be itself admissible as a business record that's coming in and which outlines the government's, or the fire department's investigation of this incident from -- we have the lead investigator, Investigator Jiminez, who put the reference to the DNA results into his report. Now, I think from, as I understand what the defense is going to do with that, they are going to say you put this in the report, where did that lead you in terms of your investigation, which is an investigation that Investigator Jiminez was in charge of. The defense is not going to be asking -- I'll ask Mr. Agnifilo if it's true or not -- about the substance of the DNA testing, the nature of the testing, what it entailed, things of that nature. It's purely brought in because it is referenced in the investigatory report and goes to what happened in the investigation, which is, by the way, the reason why the government is calling Investigator Jiminez in the first place. So, for that reason, the government's objection is overruled. But, Mr. Agnifilo, am I correct in terms of the characterization of how this is going to be utilized by the defense?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, very much so.
THE COURT: You're not going to be asking about probing into the DNA testing and asking about --
MR. AGNIFILO: He wouldn't know the answer to any of those questions.
THE COURT: The government's objection is overruled. Ms. Slavik.
MS. SLAVIK: Can I clarify the report your Honor is referring to?
THE COURT: What I'm looking at, I'm looking at Exhibit B to the -- that's where I got the reference.
MS. SLAVIK: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Is that the correct report?
MS. SLAVIK: That was just confirming that we're talking about the investigator's report, as opposed to the case materials that were referenced.
THE COURT: That's what I understood. Mr. Agnifilo, is there something --
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me --
THE COURT: Now let's talk about the document. There is multiple documents that contain this reference. Mr. Agnifilo.
MR. AGNIFILO: I don't know that we need the document in. I mean, because the significance isn't the document, the significance, as your Honor seized upon, is he gets this information. What, if anything, does he do next. So I don't know that the document needs to be admissible for him to --
THE COURT: I think the government has an objection potentially in terms of which document is being used. If you're telling the government that you're not actually putting in a document, then there is no objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: I was going to elicit from him without it. If he needed his recollection refreshed, I was going to do that. I don't know that the document is important for the reason that I think your Honor is allowing this in, which is because he is the lead investigator, this is an investigative step that informed the rest of the investigation.
THE COURT: Stop right there. Let's see if there's an issue. Ms. Slavik, I took it from what you were saying that, based on which document was at issue, you might have a different kind of objection. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. Is there an issue if the defense isn't --
MS. SLAVIK: What I hear is the defense isn't planning to introduce any exhibits, therefore, I don't think there is an issue. I will flag for the court that, in addition to the DNA testing, there were -- there was fingerprint testing and there was testing of fluid that was found in the Molotov cocktail. The government had not planned to elicit facts about that testing, but given that DNA testing and testimony on that subject will come in, I think it's appropriate to include limited testimony on those subjects, as well.
THE COURT: What is that limited testimony?
MS. SLAVIK: The fact that fingerprints were collected at the scene, were submitted for testing, additional fingerprint cards were received, those were submitted for testing, the results of those tests. The outcome --
THE COURT: What are the results of those tests?
MS. SLAVIK: Inconclusive. Nothing came back, your Honor. For the gasoline, the liquid found inside the Molotov cocktail which smelled of gasoline, that was submitted for testing and that returned a positive result for gasoline.
THE COURT: For gasoline. Mr. Agnifilo, any issues with that?
MR. AGNIFILO: That's all completely permissible, I believe.
THE COURT: OK. Anything further from the government?
MS. SLAVIK: The only request that the government has, I believe this is shared by the defense, is that we have a little bit longer for lunch. Maybe ten after 1:00, if that's permissible to the court.
THE COURT: All right. That's fine. My only --
MS. SLAVIK: Just to assure the court, we believe that we are actually running ahead of schedule. So, to the extent the court is concerned about our schedule, I think we're doing just fine.
THE COURT: All right. Fair enough. Since I asked the parties to let me know if there are ways to make this run more smoothly, I appreciate raising that. That's fine. Just as a general matter, you would like more than 30 minutes for lunch, is what you're telling me?
MS. SLAVIK: That is what we're telling you, your Honor.
THE COURT: That's a fair point. I had some questions as to how anyone was eating anything during lunch.
MS. SLAVIK: We're not, your Honor.
THE COURT: OK. So we'll take that extra time. I mean, I'm happy to give you close to an hour. I'm happy to give you an hour. My only concern was, because we have this shorter day, are we going to get through everything?
(Counsel confer)
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I think more time during lunch would be very helpful. We also think that we're running so far ahead of schedule, that our case may end up being closer to five weeks than six, at this point. I do think that we could spare the extra time.
THE COURT: All right. Why don't we come back 1:15.
MS. SLAVIK: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: Thank you very much.
(Luncheon recess)
AFTERNOON SESSION 1:15 p.m.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Ms. Steiner.
MS. STEINER: Yes. Thank you, your Honor. So, over the lunch break, the defense informed the government that they intend to seek to introduce, I think it's approximately 25 defense exhibits through this witness. The government received most of these yesterday evening, had been informed by the defense then and this morning they were only used for impeachment, which is why we did not raise these objections earlier. If I can outline the general categories I see these communications falling into. One bucket is communications I think similar in kind to what we saw being used for impeachment purposes before the break, just a communication between Ms. Clark and Mr. Combs, typically fairly brief. And I don't think the government would object to those at this time. There are, however, two other buckets of communications that, as far as I can tell, have no non-hearsay basis. They are just out-of-court statements. Most of them with Ms. Ventura, some of them with Ms. Ventura's team. But I don't think it goes to state of mind, really just trying to establish the truth of the matter. For example, there is a group of e-mail communications where Ms. Clark is just coordinating scheduling for shoots, for various career opportunities for Ms. Ventura. I think it's pretty clear it's not being offered for Ms. Clark's state of mind, rather to establish that those opportunities did, in fact, exist and were offered to Ms. Ventura. So that's the objection to those types of communications, and there are several. Additionally, there are communications that are directly between Ms. Clark and Ms. Ventura, which if the defense can proffer some state of -- why is this relevant to Ms. Clark's state of mind, then potentially we can have that discussion. But just on their face, I don't see any non-hearsay purpose.
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, your Honor. There is nothing that we're seeking to admit that is an assertion being offered for the truth. There are times when there are logistics being discussed. There are photo shoots being discussed. These are the things that are done by way of organization to bring about these things, and this is some of what the witness testified to on direct, that she was working with Cassie. And what we told the government was, depending on how the direct went, we would use these, you know, possibly refresh recollection, possibly to put them in. so we always sort of knew that. And the direct, in my opinion, went further and more negative than I had imagined it would. And so I think a lot of these logistics show that this is a hard-working woman, the witness, she's doing the things she needs to do, she is doing her job well. And rather than having her describe it -- I'm certainly within my rights, hearsay, you know, obviously being in consideration -- to show that the way that she conducts her business along with other people from Bad Boy and Epic Records and Sony Records and all the different people she's dealing with is through this way. You know, whether it be an e-mail or text message. There is no statement I'm offering for the truth of the facts in the statement. I don't think that's the case. It's all background about how she does her job.
THE COURT: Well, at this point, we're going to have to deal with it on an exhibit-by-exhibit basis. But as to the third bucket, I suppose it is -- so there's the exhibits where it's just saying, you were coordinating these events and these things were happening. OK. I'm told there is another category of exhibits that don't fall into that bucket and, instead, are communications, I believe, with Ms. Ventura or Ms. Ventura's team that don't go to that issue. And you just don't know why they are even relevant, is that fair?
MS. STEINER: Correct, your Honor.
MR. AGNIFILO: So...
MS. STEINER: I understand, perhaps, their argument of relevance. I don't understand the non-hearsay basis for admission.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, I think the relevance is -- I don't know if there is a difference between the second and third bucket.
THE COURT: What are we talking about and what's the non-hearsay basis?
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm not sure. I don't know -- I'm trying to think back to my exhibits. When I think about their three buckets, it's not all that clear to me. What I think we're going to put in, for instance, there are times when Ms. Ventura and this witness are talking about Ms. Ventura's photo shoot and Ms. Ventura is, you know, picking out artwork and they are discussing the artwork. These aren't statements being offered for the truth. It's to show that Ms. Ventura and this witness are having, you know, a natural synergy in the creative process. And the reason that is relevant in the case is because I think it's the government's theory of the case somehow Ms. Ventura was not permitted to be creative and productive as an artist.
THE COURT: I don't think you're going to get pushback on questioning along those lines. I think the objection is focused on the exhibits. We'll deal with them as the testimony comes in. After today, when you've identified exhibits and there is a government objection, then those have to be put into the letters that are coming in overnight. That way, as you can see, we get through a lot in that 30 minutes before the jury comes in. And if the parties want extra time for lunch and we still want to let the jury out early, we can't have a situation where we're going down to less than four hours of trial time with a jury here. We're bringing them in every day. That's just looking forward. For today, I'm going to deal with these as they come up. We'll hopefully not need side bars to deal with them. I understand the issues and, you know, my understanding is, to the extent you're able to get this testimony out from the witness without having to introduce the exhibits, you will do so. There may be a few times where you want to offer the exhibits, and we'll deal with the objections then.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK.
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, one more issue that was just brought to my attention. When I walked in, I was actually handed a physical copy of an additional defense exhibit we had not received previously, and included in this exhibit -- it's a text message chain -- is an image depicting Ms. Ventura from Love or Lose Her that your Honor has previously ruled should be kept out under Rule 412 and 403. I only have this hard copy. I'm happy to pass it up to your Honor. I just wanted to note that, and we will object to any attempts to introduce this as an exhibit on that basis.
THE COURT: That was addressed in the letter that addressed the Mescudi issue, right, that particular artwork?
MS. STEINER: That was actually a separate issue, your Honor. This is something that was just brought to my attention for the first time when I was handed this a moment ago. The fact that there is an image that your Honor has previously -- the defense previously sought to introduce, your Honor reviewed, determined that under 412 and 403 it should be kept out.
THE COURT: When I excluded it, though, there was minimal, if any, probative value to that evidence. What I'm saying is that in the defense submission over the weekend.
MS. STEINER: I see, your Honor. I understand.
THE COURT: They articulated a different reason why that particular album cover would be relevant and probative, because it was actually something that Ms. Ventura worked on, and she developed the artwork during that time period and it was her artistic vision, I take it. Ms. Shapiro, is that fair?
MS. SHAPIRO: That's correct, your Honor. Also, I may be misremembering, when I looked at the transcript again, your Honor didn't -- I don't believe your Honor excluded it on 412 grounds.
THE COURT: It wasn't a 412, it was a 403.
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, on whatever basis, certainly if we want to limit it to 403. Again, this is a photo where Ms. Ventura is topless and just covering her chest with her arms, and it's part of a broader conversation about ten different individuals, one of them is Ms. Clark, many, many others. Similarly, I don't understand the relevance, so I think any probative value is nil and the prejudice is significant.
THE COURT: We'll have to deal with this, and here is what's going to happen. Now, if I'm remembering the sequence of events, there was an e-mail from Ms. Geragos indicating that there were exhibits the defense was planning to put in, but that we could deal with it in realtime. That's my understanding, my recollection of what the e-mail said. But there was a pending objection that had been raised by the government at that time. And so, knowing that, if you really want these in, you should have raised it prior to the trial day and we would have gone through this at 8:30 and potentially gone all the way to 9:30. Now we're going to make the decision and make the calls as they come up. Mr. Agnifilo, to the extent you want to seek to admit these, I'll take a look, see if it complies with the rules, and make a ruling and we will proceed from there. So I think it makes best sense, moving forward, to raise these in advance so that I can fully hear everybody on all their arguments.
MR. AGNIFILO: Understood, Judge.
THE COURT: OK. Let's have Ms. Clark come back.
(Witness resumed)
THE COURT: Welcome back, Ms. Clark.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, do you understand you're still under oath?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo, you may proceed.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Good afternoon, Ms. Clark.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Good afternoon, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, I want to get back very briefly to when you left Combs' employment in 2006 and went to, was it, Samba Records?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Jive Samba, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you remember that Mr. Combs was supportive of you leaving and going there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't really remember, but I don't remember that it was a problem based on what had happened.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember that he had good connections with the leadership of Samba?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He did, but I did, too.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And do you know if he made phone calls that made it easier for you to get that job?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. But you discussed it with him, did you not?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And do you remember -- do you remember him saying that he had good connections there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember that.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. I'm going to ask you to look at something to refresh your recollection, which is -- this is just for the witness and the parties -- 3509-011 at page three. We'll pull it up. It is sort of the top. Do me a favor. If we can just do the top, like, quarter. Even higher. There we go. Now blow that up. All right. Do me a favor. I want you to read to yourself the first few lines there. And when you get to Samba, look back up at me. Never mind. That was terrible. It's a few times. Read the first five lines and then look up at me. OK. All right. So you remember that he had strong relationships there, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And do you remember he told you that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You remember he was supportive of the move, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember him being unsupportive of the move.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. But it was a big deal, I mean, to you, that you were leaving and going there, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, not after what happened. It wasn't necessarily good at that moment. But we both knew Mark Pitts. Obviously, he knew Mark Pitts better.
MR. AGNIFILO: Say that name again?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mark Pitts.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who is Mark Pitts?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He was the president of Jive at that time. I didn't work for Mark, but he was working there.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you remember that you went there because you were making more money there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was making -- that's not why I went there.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Can we go back and take a look at what we just looked at.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: If we can look at the top line. Read it to yourself.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I read it, sir. That's not why --
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, just read it to yourself and we'll take it down, and Mr. Agnifilo will ask you a followup.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Do you remember telling anybody that you had an opportunity to go there and make more money?
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't remember saying that to anyone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: No?
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. But you did make more money, quite a bit more money?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. All right. I want to also talk about you, you talked about this walk in Central Park?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You guys were going to Tavern On the Green, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, we parked at Tavern On the Green. We had been in the park earlier that day.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you go to Tavern On the Green that night?
MR. AGNIFILO: So, that's just -- you just parked there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We just parked. There's a roundabout there --
MR. AGNIFILO: OK.
CAPRICORN CLARK: -- on the east side of the park -- the west side of the park.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then you and Mr. Combs and who walked?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Paul Offord.
MR. AGNIFILO: How long were you walking through the park?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We walked -- not long. Just a little bit away of Tavern On the Green under a tree.
MR. AGNIFILO: Have you known Mr. Combs to walk in Central Park as a matter of course from time to time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We were in the park earlier that day on a walk, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: But I'm talking not that day, just that Central Park is a place that Mr. Combs went to from time to time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I mean, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your office was pretty close to Central Park, right?
MR. AGNIFILO: Where was it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: 1440 Broadway.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what was a cross street?
CAPRICORN CLARK: From 1440 Broadway?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes. Broadway and what, do you know?
CAPRICORN CLARK: 40th?
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. It's less than 20 blocks away? It is.
CAPRICORN CLARK: It is, but it's not close.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. All right. Did you ever walk in Central Park other than that one time with Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Earlier that day.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And where were you earlier that day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We -- he was giving me the run of the, you know, run of show, what the job would be like. And we walked from the east side of the park to the west side of the park, and we ran into Nas and Kelis in the middle of the park.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And who are they?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Nas is a rapper and Kelis is a singer.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, when that happened, just you and Mr. Combs were walking in the park?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that was during the day?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That was in the daytime.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. All right. How long were you and he in the park at that time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just a walk, like, 20 minutes, walking across.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said that this was earlier in your career there, so he was kind of giving you the lay of the land?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We were talking. Yeah, he was giving me the lay of the land. And then we ran into them in the middle of the park.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And I want to talk -- you told the jury about this incident where he had Cassie come in a room and spin around and all that stuff. OK. Who was there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Lauren London and Chef Jordan.
MR. AGNIFILO: But not LaurieAnn Gibson?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't recall LaurieAnn Gibson being there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember ever saying that LaurieAnn Gibson was there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I never said LaurieAnn Gibson was there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can we look at 3509-055, page three, just for the witness and the parties. Blow up the top maybe third.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. I'm going to focus your attention to the bottom paragraph there, and just read it to yourself.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Someone misunderstood then. Oh, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: We're not there yet. We're not there yet.
CAPRICORN CLARK: All righty.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Just read it to yourself, and when you're done reading, just look up at me. Who is LaurieAnn Gibson?
CAPRICORN CLARK: LaurieAnn Gibson is a choreographer.
MR. AGNIFILO: You know her, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: You've known her more many years?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: She goes back to the old -- withdrawn on old. To the days of hip-hop from, like, back in the '90s, like you do?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I don't go back to the '90s like she does. She's older than I am.
MR. AGNIFILO: So she goes back even further than you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Do you remember telling the government that this thing with Cassie spinning around was with LaurieAnn and Chef Jordan in 2010?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No. It looks like I was misunderstood. They heard LaurieAnn instead of Lauren.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So you didn't take these notes, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I didn't take these notes.
MR. AGNIFILO: How many times would you say you met with the government before you testified here today?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know. A couple of times. I don't know the exact count.
MR. AGNIFILO: Couple meaning, like, more than, like, a dozen?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Maybe a dozen. It's a good number.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And so, you understand when you sit down with them, they have an agent taking notes or one of the prosecutors takes notes, right? You have to answer yes or no.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm sorry. Yes, sir. Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: What you're saying, so you didn't say LaurieAnn Gibson?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Absolutely not.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. OK. I want to talk about Cassie Ventura for a little bit.
MR. AGNIFILO: When did you first meet Cassie Ventura?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I met Cassie briefly when she was signed, when Niles brought her to be signed. I met her and Ryan Leslie.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so, when you first met her, do you know if she was still with Ryan Leslie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, she was.
MR. AGNIFILO: And just tell the jury, the jury has heard a little bit. Tell the jury who Ryan Leslie is.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Ryan Leslie was a producer. He came in with her as her, sort of, like, the producer that she was working with. Um, and they -- they were being managed by Glenn Niles, who was the head of publishing at Bad Boy. And she was married to Cassie's lawyer and Ryan Leslie's lawyer, so it kind of came like that. And I met them through Glenn.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And to your knowledge, when you met Ms. Ventura, was she in a relationship with Ryan Leslie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, she was.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And how do you know that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just off of how they presented themselves. This is -- this is Cassie, this is Ryan. You know, they are boyfriend- girlfriend. But it wasn't a big thing, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it. They seemed together that way?
CAPRICORN CLARK: But they weren't around us a lot.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And Ryan Leslie is how much older than Cassie, if you know?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know Ryan personally, so I don't know. But I know he's older than she.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And you didn't always get along with Cassie, am I right?
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And why did you not get along with Cassie sometimes?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, what time period would you be referring to?
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's go in the beginning. Let's say the early years, 2007 to 2010.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't think we really had issues in 2007 to 2010. 2007, she was my model for Sean John. We hadn't really developed the other side. She was just in the Sean John campaigns.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when did you -- you said you hadn't had issues yet. When did you and she develop issues?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I would say our issues developed after she started dating him.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So that's about what, 2007, 2008?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I would say she got a little bit more -- 2008, I would say, perhaps.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so, just so the record reflects, you said she got a little bit more, and then you moved your shoulders.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Oh, sorry. Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's all right. What are conveying? What are you telling the jury?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She got a little bit more bravado as being his girlfriend, the longer it lasted.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what did you see in that regard? When you say she got more bravado, how did that manifest itself to what you could see?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Sometimes she thought I was being paid to help her.
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Objection is sustained. The jury should disregard the witness's answer. Mr. Agnifilo, you can reask the question in a way ...
MR. AGNIFILO: Sure, sure, sure.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Without getting into what she might have been thinking.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Apologies.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, no, no. That's all right. I'm asking really what you were able to see. So what were you able to see and hear, you know, sense from being around her?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, just that her expectation level was increasing.
MR. AGNIFILO: How did that manifest itself? What could you see? What could you hear?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She went from more being a sweet model to, um, a feisty girlfriend.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And did you think she was very talented?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I think she had talent and I think she was a very beautiful girl.
MR. AGNIFILO: So in your -- is having talent different than being very talented?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So I asked you if she was very talented and she was not very talented, as far as you were concerned, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: True.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said she had talent?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And tell the jury, you've been in this field your whole career, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you feel like you're a pretty good judge of talent, from what you could see?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I mean, it's subjective, but I think I have good taste.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. All right. And why did you think -- Why do you think she just had talent as opposed to being very talented?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, talented to me is Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey. Very talented is that level of performer, entertainer. Cassie was more of a studio artist.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. What does that mean? Tell us what a studio artist is.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, a little bit more comfortable in the vocal booth to have a little bit of things equalized for you and, you know, engineered properly. Less of a live performer.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So you said equalized, vocal -- her voice would have to be manipulated by other means to live up to -- withdrawn. I obviously don't know this terrain very well. So, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, get up in front of a microphone, belt it out, and the world says wow, that was amazing, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: True.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's not Cassie?
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. What did Cassie need to put a record out?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She needed number one great records, she needed a well-oiled plan, and she needed to go out there and work it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Are there -- could she perform -- Did she perform live while you were with her?
CAPRICORN CLARK: A couple of times.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And how did it go?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It wasn't the greatest.
MR. AGNIFILO: Why is that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, she was a little bit nervous. She didn't really have a lot of opportunities. She wasn't getting booked a lot for live performances, so there wasn't necessarily a chance for her to gain that experience. When she did have it, she would rehearse and do her very best, but she still had nerves.
MR. AGNIFILO: And, on occasion, was it worse than having nerves? Were there occasions where, either from what you could see because of drug use or something else, she was unable to perform?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I mean, later, when I came back for that consultancy that I did in 2016, I could see that her drug use was preventing her from the opportunities that were before us.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. From what you could see, was she a very hard worker?
CAPRICORN CLARK: At times.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And, at times, not?
CAPRICORN CLARK: At times, not.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Now let's talk about the times she was a hard worker. What did you -- in what areas was she a hard worker?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, if we were in the studio, she would show up on time. She would do the vocals. She would do them over again. If we were listening to tracks, if we were trying to meet with producers, she would show up. If I'm sitting there trying to come up where a creative direction, she's looking, she's enthusiastic, she's giving input. Um, working out, dance rehearsals, choreography, just trying to do the things an artist does to create betterment for the execution of the show.
MR. AGNIFILO: And in what ways was she not a hard worker?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Oh, well, I would say most of the time she preferred to be with her boyfriend.
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, can we get a time period?
MR. AGNIFILO: Fair enough.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me break it down. We'll call the early years 2007 to 2010. Would you say she was not a hard worker or a hard worker in 2007 to 2010?
CAPRICORN CLARK: 2007, I would say she was a hard worker then.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Did there come a time when, from your perception, she stopped being as hard a worker?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I would say that it -- I saw her downgrade in her level of execution when we made the move to LA.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And do you know when that was approximately?
CAPRICORN CLARK: After Kim had the twins, so 2009-ish.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm not exactly sure. I would say 2009.
MR. AGNIFILO: After that, you saw that she wasn't working as hard?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not as hard.
MR. AGNIFILO: What did you see along those lines?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I saw her not working. I saw her developing more of her relationship with Puff, Mr. Combs.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And did you think she deserved -- did she get a tension? Did she get support, from what you could see, from Combs and the business?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And --
MS. STEINER: Again, can we get a time period.
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is there -- Did it change as time went on?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The support?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes. Or was it about the same throughout, from what you could see?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I would say it was about the same. He always was supportive, but there would be times when the support would fall away.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So you said he -- there were times it would fall away. He would always be supportive. In what form did this support come from, what you could see?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Budgets, producers, artists, other artists, choreographers, stylists, hair artists. You know, just general top tier of the industry that creates stars. He made sure to give her access.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So she, in all of those areas, she got top-tier talent to support her to become a star, fair to say?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Fair.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you think that she always deserved all of this attention and support?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me ask a different question.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me ask a different question. Did you think all of this attention and support -- I'm going to ask you a different question. Were there other artists in Bad Boy who were getting less attention and support than she was?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
(Continued on next page)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So describe that for us in terms of the amount of attention and support that she got as opposed to other artists in Bad Boy at the time.
CAPRICORN CLARK: May I ask for a time period?
MR. AGNIFILO: Sure. Let's talk first 2007 to 2010 and then we'll go from there.
CAPRICORN CLARK: 2007 to 2010, she got a considerable amount of support. That was the early days. In relation to the other artists, we really didn't have -- I think maybe Yung Joc was there. We had maybe -- I forget. We had another group from Atlanta I think around that time. They got a video. And who else was there? The -- I would say, as I could see it, from my POV.
MR. AGNIFILO: Mm-hmm.
CAPRICORN CLARK: The lion's share of Bad Boy was on Cassie in that first block of time.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, let's talk about 2010 to 2012 because you leave in August of 2012, so let's talk about that period of time. Same or different?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Different.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. In what way?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We had new artists at the time. My portfolio, in terms of who I was working with, as in relation to Bad Boy, opened up. That's when French -- like I developed French Montana, had Red Cafe and MGK. And MGK was getting a lot of attention, as was French Montana. So I kind of see -- I was, from where I was, kind of seeing support now coming for the other artists as well.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. About the same level of support and attention as Cassie was getting roughly?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you came back in what year after you left in 2012?
CAPRICORN CLARK: 2016.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. 2016, 2017. Same question. What kind of attention and support was Cassie getting during those years?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I would say same support. However, he had fell back in terms of being on our sets, being there when we were working. So he took a step back.
MR. AGNIFILO: You mean Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it.
CAPRICORN CLARK: So I would say he kind of put it more in her hands in that 2016 window to actually show up and do it. Like he wasn't going to ride her now. He wasn't over our shoulder on set. He was doing whatever he was. And he was just supporting from the phone.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. But in 2016, 2017, it was your job to work closely with Cassie, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And tell the jury exactly what you did for Cassie in 2016 and '17?
CAPRICORN CLARK: So she had a deal -- she got a new record deal on Epic. And she and I hadn't spoken since 2012. We ran into each other somewhere and she was like, hey, I got a new record deal, maybe I'll talk to Puff, maybe we get back together and work and stuff. And, you know, I haven't been doing anything since. I had a baby. And I love being creative. I love my work. And so it was the first thing was the MTV Awards that year to come up with a look for her. And I -- we turned her hair highlighter green and dressed her like David Bowie, and it was amazing. And then we did a photo shoot at my house on Puff's birthday to support the project. We wrote a movie. We shot a mini-movie. We shot videos. And that was pretty much the time. Every time I saw her, it was for work.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Let's back to 2008 time period. Was there a song called Official Girl; does that sound right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell the jury about that.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Official Girl was a song where -- in a super cute video, she looked great. It had a good uptempo, and it was about wanting to be someone's official girl.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And then Must Be Love?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Must Be Love was another song that came out, I don't know if it was before or after, I'm sorry. A long -- time has passed. But it was a really cute song and Puff was featured on that song with her. And it was about like, you know, falling in love.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So I'm going to ask you some things, sound right, Official Girl released August 5th, 2008, ballpark?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Could be, could be, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Lil Wayne was on it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: At the time, Lil Wayne was a pretty popular artist?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He was popular. But it's good to note, I was still at Sean John technically for Official Girl.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it. Okay. Now, for Must Be Love, April 14th, 2009 release?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. I was back by then, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Produced by Mario Winans?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And just tell us, who is Mario Winans?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mario Winans is from the Winans family. The Winans are a gospel family in the industry. Great -- if you've been to a Christian church, you've probably heard him. And he is one -- he was one of the hitmen. The hitmen were Puff's producing squad back when Biggie was alive and they did some good stuff. And Mario was a really talented producer.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then a little bit later, King of Hearts released February of 2012, sound right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us about that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: King of Hearts was a song that I found from my friend and this producer and it was -- it was different. It was outside of the audio scope she had been in, and it was something new and fresh and it sounded pretty cool. And Puff liked it when he heard it, and she liked it. So we got it up as a single and did a really cool video for it.
MR. AGNIFILO: You mentioned that at one point Cassie had like a colorful neon wig?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah. Well, no, we died her hair.
MR. AGNIFILO: Dyed her hair, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: I just want to just for the witness and the parties Defense Exhibit 628. We're going to pull it up.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is that it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, we would ask just to offer it.
MS. STEINER: No objection.
THE COURT: Defense Exhibit 628 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 628 received in evidence)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: And so, now, you had input into this or no?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And tell us what the concept is?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The concept was I hadn't been around them in years. And she had a new record deal. And she had -- you know, we had the shaved head before with the cascading long hair, and it was really pretty, and I wanted to depart from that. I wanted something edgier, bolder. The music that she was making with Kaytranada, producer, was slicker and more contemporary, and I wanted to put her in the future a little bit and I wanted to -- everybody want to be her. And I thought it was a good look.
MR. AGNIFILO: And was she opposed to this?
MR. AGNIFILO: She liked the idea?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She did.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. So this was collaboration between the two of you and this was the look that was the result of this collaboration?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. She very much had her own voice in this look, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You wouldn't do this against her will, right?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. You did this working with her. And this is something, this is the look that she and you wanted for her at that time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I presented to her. I presented it to her before we presented it to Mr. Combs. She liked it. She loved the hair. She was like yeah, let's do it. I said we could do a cheat it with a weave, but it would be cooler if you dye your hair, and she was like I love that. So it was cool.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, in January 2012, you were working with Cassie at that time period, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm going to ask to show you an exhibit for the parties and the witness, 968. I'm sorry it's small. If we can blow up the top so the witness can see where it is. Does that help you? Is that still too small? Let's do this. Can we just do the top, the top -- yeah, there you go. See if we can get it bigger. A. Whoa, there's a lot of people in here.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, that's all right. That's all right. Take a look at it for a second. Let me ask you a couple questions and help you.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is an e-mail from you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: This is an e-mail from me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And it's that Capricorn1@tmo.blackberry.net. I think we saw that during direct examination that same e-mail?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That was my blackberry, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That was your blackberry. And without getting to everybody, you have a lot of folks here from Bad Boy and other places, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: I ask that it be admitted as 968.
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, we have the same hearsay objection we flagged earlier. There's also a sealing objection related to pseudonym issue.
MR. AGNIFILO: Related to?
THE COURT: Well, there's apparently some sealed information here that should be sealed, although I have no idea what it is. But for present purposes, Mr. Agnifilo, why don't you ask some questions.
MR. AGNIFILO: Sure.
THE COURT: Because I'm not understanding the relevance of this document to begin with.
MR. AGNIFILO: Sure.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, at this point, you are like Cassie's representative; am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And this is setting up a conference call; do you see that it says Bad Boy conference call?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It looks like Jason Wiley was setting up a conference call.
THE COURT: Ask her questions about what happened.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
THE COURT: Don't ask her questions about the document, which you haven't put into evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's fine. Very good.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you don't have any recollection of this e-mail, or do you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And as part of the way you conducted business at this point in time is by e-mails with other people from Bad Boy, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. It was common for you to send e-mails and receive e-mails, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the e-mails would be sent or received in regard to different things that had to happen, such as conference calls and other things, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And this appears to be an e-mail that you sent in connection with a conference call at Bad Boy, related conference call, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It looks to be a response.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So can I speak to the government for a second, Judge?
THE COURT: Yes, you can.
MR. AGNIFILO: So here's is what I ask, just a few more questions for the witness about this exhibit, and then we won't put it into evidence.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: So the date of this e-mail is January 13th, 2012; can you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I can.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Great. So January 12th, so you're conducting business as usual in this e-mail, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And we can take it down.
MR. AGNIFILO: And January 12th -- I'm sorry. What did I say it was? January 13th. Sorry. January 13th, 2012, was three weeks after this kidnapping you told this jury about?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So you were conducting business that whole time, right? I mean, you told the jury about this kidnapping and Mr. Combs has a gun and people are going to get murdered. And here you are on January 13th, 2012, arranging for a Bad Boy conference call on behalf of Cassie with a lot of other folks from Bad Boy. That's what we see in this e-mail, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't think that's what you see. I think you see Jason Wiley requesting that the chairman wants to speak to everybody, and I responded that Cassie and I are confirmed.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. Okay. So the chairman being Mr. Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So this was a meeting -- a conference call, right, for Bad Boy?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I can't tell what it is, but it's something, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. My point is you're back conducting business, being a productive member of the company, immediately after this kidnapping you told the jury about, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, I want to talk about the summer and fall of 2011. You were living -- you said it's paid by the company, by Bad Boy, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. It was staff housing.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what was the name of the apartment complex; do you remember?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The HillCreste.
MR. AGNIFILO: The HillCreste, okay. And it is right near the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles; is that right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And how long had you been living there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Maybe a couple of months.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Because we had been living in hotels prior.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And so were there lots of different people from Bad Boy living in the HillCreste?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just you; no one else?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The rest of the staff lived around the corner.
MR. AGNIFILO: And how far from HillCreste were they?
CAPRICORN CLARK: They were two and a half minutes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Walking or driving? I mean like right around the corner around the corner, or some distance away?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Right around the corner around the corner.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you said that Cassie was staying with you about 30 percent of the time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mm-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Just --
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: There you go.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: Starting when? When did Cassie start staying with you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: When we started going back and forth to LA, once I had the place, because I was tired of staying in hotels because I couldn't eat properly, you know, at room service. She would come to my house when he was busy.
MR. AGNIFILO: When Combs was busy?
CAPRICORN CLARK: And if she wasn't -- if she didn't feel like staying in a hotel and she wanted to be with somebody.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, at what point did you first realize or learn that Cassie Ventura and Scott Mescudi, Kid Cudi were in a relationship?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I didn't -- I was never made aware that they were in a relationship. I knew that they were getting to know each other. I believe I found out maybe after Thanksgiving in 2011.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. After Thanksgiving that they were in a relationship?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No. That they were getting to know each other.
MR. AGNIFILO: Got it. From time to time, were you aware that Ms. Ventura was spending the night at Kid Cudi's house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: One time I was aware when I picked her up.
MR. AGNIFILO: And when was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That was about a week before everything, a couple days before everything.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So everything, you're talking about the kidnapping --
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: -- and everything?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: So a week before that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: About.
MR. AGNIFILO: And to your knowledge, she only stayed at Kid Cudi's house that one night?
CAPRICORN CLARK: To my knowledge.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Other than that, she would stay with you about 30 percent of the time, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And when she wasn't staying with you, where was she staying?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She would either be in a hotel.
MR. AGNIFILO: Mm-hmm.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Or with Mr. Combs in his residence.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And so you believed, in terms of what you believed, that Ms. Ventura and Mr. Combs were still together?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you believed that after Thanksgiving, Ms. Ventura and Kid Cudi were what? How would you characterize it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Getting to know each other, hanging out.
MR. AGNIFILO: Hanging out?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: And that at one point in December, she spent the night at his house; you knew that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I knew that because I was picking her up, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, at what point do you and she go to Best Buy and get her a burner phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: After we went hiking with Cudi that day.
MR. AGNIFILO: And about when was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Like a week before December 22nd, not very long before that day.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And tell me how the conversation goes. You and Cassie are speaking, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Which conversation, sir?
MR. AGNIFILO: That led to you and she going to Best Buy and buying a burner phone, that one.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I said, oh, well, you need a burner phone. And she was like huh. And I was like you cannot do this on your phone, my phone, you cannot -- this is very -- you're making this very dangerous.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you came up with the idea of a burner phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And where did you get that idea from? I know it sounds naive, but where did you get the idea from?
CAPRICORN CLARK: My parents died when I was 17. I'm from Los Angeles. I don't know how to answer that question. I'm smart.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Have you ever used a burner phone?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So you never used one yourself?
CAPRICORN CLARK: But I know of them.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. You know of them and you suggested that Cassie get one?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then you and she went to Best Buy. Who paid for it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She did.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so now she had two phones, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: She had her Bad Boy phone, her work phone, and she had her burner phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You never got a burner phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not have a burner phone.
MR. AGNIFILO: You kept using your Bad Boy phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, did you spend Thanksgiving 2011 with Kid Cudi and Cassie?
MR. AGNIFILO: Did Kid Cudi ever come to your house to hang out, your apartment to hang out?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: About how many times?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Once.
MR. AGNIFILO: And when was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was after Thanksgiving. I don't know the date, but it was after Thanksgiving.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, do you remember -- was he drinking Jameson at your apartment? Do you remember anything about this?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He was drinking Jameson at my apartment.
MR. AGNIFILO: And the Jameson bottle was out?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. He left the Jameson bottle.
MR. AGNIFILO: It was out where people could see it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was out on the counter, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you said that -- how many times have you been to Cudi's house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I had been there to pick her up and we went hiking, and then again with Mr. Combs.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So when you went to pick her up to go hiking?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: There's a door that separates the property from the road, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mm-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: How did you get through it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Cudi opened it. They came -- they came out. We stopped and chat before we went to the canyon.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So that door locks, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wasn't paying attention.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. You didn't turn the knob and walk through it though is my point?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I -- I think they opened it for me. One of them. I wasn't -- like I was let in or anything like that. It was more like, hey, you're here, boom, boom, boom. So I don't know the mechanics of the door.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, do you know how many times, only if you know, how many times Cassie Ventura has been to Kid Cudi's house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not know. I do not know.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Did you know that she was there -- other than the night that she slept over, did you know that she was there from time to time?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I didn't know that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, in December 2011, Mr. Combs was not in the United States, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: He -- do you recall if he was, on December 19th, 2011, at an orphanage in Almaty, Khuzestan?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I just remember he was in Russia. I don't remember exactly what -- but I just remember he was in Russia or something like that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Do you remember seeing photographs of him on the internet of him at an orphanage in Almaty, Khuzestan in December?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. Keep it going.
MR. AGNIFILO: You knew he was in Russia; you don't know he was in Khuzestan?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir. I wasn't his assistant.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm just asking --
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I'm just saying, I didn't know his schedule at that point.
THE COURT: Let's move on. Mr. Agnifilo, let's get the next question.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you said today that at some point between 5:30 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. on December the 22nd, there's a banging on your door. Okay. Could it have been as early as 5:00 a.m.?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't think it could have been as early as 5:00.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember telling the government that it was 5:00 a.m.?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I told them it was always between 5:00 and 6:00.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Can we look at, for the witness only, 3509-001, page four. Give me a second.
MR. AGNIFILO: So it's that middle paragraph there.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: So here's what I'm going to ask you to do. Just read the last five lines to yourself.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: So my question for now is did you tell the government that it was 5:00 a.m.?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I never said 5:00 a.m. I said between 5:00 and 6:00.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you never said 5:00 a.m.?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And did -- and so there was no building security guard out there with Mr. Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: There was building security at the gate and he let him in with the fob and then left.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. My question though, is when you looked through the peephole --
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me finish the question. Did you see Mr. Combs with a building security guard?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you tell the government that when you looked through the peephole you saw Mr. Combs with a building security guard?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Absolutely not.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Can we pull this back up.
MR. AGNIFILO: We're going to look at the last four lines.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I read it, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: So my question to you is -- well, let me back up. Do you remember speaking with the government on June 21st, 2024?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do remember speaking to them. I don't remember it being June, but sure.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: And when you -- can we go back to page four. And I just want you to look at it one last time.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mm-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And did you tell the government that you looked through the door peephole and saw Combs with one of her building security guards; did you say that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not say that.
MR. AGNIFILO: You did not say that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not say that.
MR. AGNIFILO: You understand -- we can take it down. Now, this was a meeting that you had with the Department of Homeland Security special agent, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Sean Quinn, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And he was asking you questions about this event, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And notes were being taken of this meeting; are you aware of that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You're aware that when you speak, the government, as part of an investigation, they tend to take notes, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And they were taking notes on this occasion, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you have an understanding that these notes are then made into a report?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I see, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So what you're telling us is you didn't tell the government that you saw a building security guard outside with Mr. Combs through the peephole; you did not say that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not say that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Because there was no building security guard, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He was in the guard box.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, no, that's not my question. I know there's a building security guard somewhere. My question is whether the building security guard is on the other side of your front door and that you see this building security guard through your peephole when you see Mr. Combs; and you're saying you never said that, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I never said that.
MS. STEINER: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now -- so you let Mr. Combs in, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know how he got up to -- because you can't get into your building without security letting you in, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Correct.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. You didn't let him in, did you?
MR. AGNIFILO: You sure?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So how did he get in?
CAPRICORN CLARK: You want me to answer?
MR. AGNIFILO: If you --
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm assume --
MR. AGNIFILO: No, I don't want an assumption. I want if you know.
CAPRICORN CLARK: When --
MR. AGNIFILO: If you know, how did he get in?
CAPRICORN CLARK: When I inquired, when we inquired with the security guard that was normally there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah.
CAPRICORN CLARK: She said that that security guard was fired. He said that Mr. Combs came to the gate. He was livid as hell, very upset, had a gun, and was like you're going to let me in that building.
MR. AGNIFILO: And who is this person?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Some random security guard at HillCreste.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you get a name?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't have his name.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm sure you can call HillCreste.
MR. AGNIFILO: Go ahead. All right. What does he look like?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Black guy, younger.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Younger than 35.
MR. AGNIFILO: Have you seen him before?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He hadn't worked there very long. He was like a new guard.
MR. AGNIFILO: New guard?
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo, let's have a question and then an answer.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I got you.
MR. AGNIFILO: So nothing can you do to help us out with a name or anything like that. Ever speak to him again?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir. He was fired.
MR. AGNIFILO: He was fired. So there's nothing you can do to help us with a name or anything like that, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. All right. So now Mr. Combs is outside of your door alone, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: No one is with him, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No one is with him.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you let him in, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what's his -- what do you notice about him? What's his physical condition?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Furious.
MR. AGNIFILO: Furious. Does he appear to be on drugs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wouldn't say so. But the furious, he was at another level of fury, so I wasn't quite sure what was going on with him.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you're saying that he had a gun in his hand?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And you said you've never seen him with a gun in his hand, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Prior to that day, no, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what was he doing with the gun in his hand?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Holding it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Was he pointing at you?
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember telling the government that he was pointing it at you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I never told the government he was pointing it at me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can we go back to 3509-001, page four.
MR. AGNIFILO: So here's what I would like you to do, read from -- read the third and fourth lines and then look at me when you're done. Do you remember telling the government that Mr. Combs was pointing the gun at you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It says or waved around in that text you let me read.
MR. AGNIFILO: So here's my question: Does it -- did you tell the government -- we can pull it back up so you can see it again.
CAPRICORN CLARK: The latter half of that is more correct.
THE COURT: Hold on.
MR. AGNIFILO: Hold on.
THE COURT: You got to just wait for the question, Ms. Clark, just so we can...
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you tell the government that Combs was pointing a gun at her or waving it around; is that what you told the government?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I said he was waving it around.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you didn't say that Combs was pointing a gun at you; you didn't say that to the government?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I clarified multiple meetings that he did not point the gun at me.
MR. AGNIFILO: So other than clarification, my question is only one thing.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not say that, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did not say that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not say that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you went and then you -- you were not in street clothes when he arrived, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was in pajamas.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then you went and you changed into street clothes, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Sweats and a button down shirt.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Where did you go to do that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: My closet.
MR. AGNIFILO: And where was Mr. Combs when that happened?
CAPRICORN CLARK: My kitchen.
MR. AGNIFILO: And how far is your kitchen from your closet?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Behind my closet. Like, you know, shared wall. Shared wall.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you went and you put on street clothes, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you put on shoes?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you left, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And isn't it true that you went so that Mr. Combs wouldn't do something stupid?
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember telling me and Ms. Geragos that when we were all together in April?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: That: I went so that he wouldn't do something stupid?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't remember saying that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: I am quite sure that you did not want to be woken up at 5:30 in the morning; am I fair in that assessment?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. Let's get a question.
MR. AGNIFILO: But you went because you were afraid he was going to do something stupid?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: That's overruled.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I went because he told me he didn't care that I didn't want to go.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you are saying that you didn't want to go, told him you didn't want to go, and you went anyway?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're telling me that it's not the case that you'd rather not go, but you did not want him to go and do something stupid?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The case was I didn't want to go. He told me it wasn't up to me, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you were concerned he could do something stupid, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right. Because he's a jealous guy; you knew that, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wouldn't use the word jealous. I would use he has a very bad temper.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. He has a very bad temper. You know he has a very bad temper, and you did not want him to do something stupid?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not want to go and it was not my choice, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Because if he did something stupid, you would be out of a job?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Myriad of things were happening, but I did not want to go, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you walked down and you get in the Escalade, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And where is the Escalade in regard to the front of your building?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It is at the like a fire exit stairwell, closer to my door because I wasn't near the elevator shaft, if you will.
MR. AGNIFILO: And where is -- did you have to pass the security guard?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah. Did you see him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: And how far were you from him at your closest point?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The windows were up. I was in the passenger, back passenger seat, and he was in the little hut.
MR. AGNIFILO: So before you got into the Escalade, where were you in relation to the security guard?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Out of vantage point. My building sat on Pico, the security guard sits sort of in the outside of the complex. And where I came down, that guard house is still outside of the bearing of the complex, if you will.
MR. AGNIFILO: But how far away in feet?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Oh, feet, 50, 60, 70 feet, something like that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So when you -- you said that you went back and you had a conversation with somebody about getting someone fired; am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I didn't get them fired. When I asked, she said he had been fired.
MR. AGNIFILO: And who did you speak?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The security guard. I forget the lady's name. Maybe it was Ms. Berta. I don't remember. She was an older black lady. She was super sweet and she was sort of the boss of the security.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do we know a full name for her?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: But you knew -- you said something Berta?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I think it was Ms. Roberta. But I could -- don't quote me on Ms. Roberta, but it was Ms. something.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't know her name?
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, and you drove over to Cudi's house, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Where you have been before, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: One time, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Mr. Combs is in the back of the Escalade behind the driver, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you were next to him in the passenger seat, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir -- no, I was in the back. Yeah. Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: In the second row passenger seat?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said that there was a gun on his lap?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: So now -- and you made a phone call on the way, didn't you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not on the way.
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You get there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what happens when you get there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't do anything until he is out of my vantage point. He's in that house.
MR. AGNIFILO: So before we get to the house, can we pull up Government's Exhibit -- one second. The front of Cudi's house. Give us one second. There it is. BC-102. It's already in evidence.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is where the car pulled up, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And where was the Escalade in relation to this door?
CAPRICORN CLARK: My door, my back passenger door is literally truncated to this door. So I'm sitting sort of in that walkway. We're parallel to the curb. We're facing up the hill, not down the hill.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So this street is a hill going up from right to left, right, the way the photo looks?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah. The way the photo looks.
MR. AGNIFILO: It goes up a hill?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And this door when you got there was closed, or was it open?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was closed when we got there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. How did he get through it? Not you. How did anyone get through it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wasn't paying attention to how they did anything. I was so busy waiting for my chance to use the phone.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So they -- you saw -- it was Rube you're saying and Mr. Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You saw them go through this door?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Did it seem like anyone had a key?
MR. AGNIFILO: Did it seem like they pulled the door hard and it opened? Like what did you see that allowed them to get through the door?
CAPRICORN CLARK: They were -- whatever they were doing, their backs were to me. I don't know, but I was really not engaged in how they were getting in. I was very -- waiting for them to get away from me so I could use the phone.
MR. AGNIFILO: But wouldn't you be watching them to see if they're actually going to be getting away from you? I mean, the key thing here is if they don't get through this door this ends right here.
MS. STEINER: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me ask a different question.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: Why wouldn't you be staring right at the door to see if they can get through in the door?
MS. STEINER: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Rephrase.
MR. AGNIFILO: Were you looking at the door to see if they could get through the door?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was looking at their backs.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. As you're looking at their backs, what -- on the other side of them is this door, right?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. But I would say at that point I was sort of kind of not really paying attention. I was so in my head trying to think the next step. And I was praying that Cudi wasn't inside there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So what you're telling us is you haven't the vaguest idea how they got through this door; is that about right?
MS. STEINER: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't know?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't.
MR. AGNIFILO: At some point they're through the door you're telling us, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're saying that they left this door open?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you're saying that through this door -- tell us exactly what part of the house you could see into through this door?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I could see the front door. And maybe like the immediate vestibule of his house. I think it was glass behind the main house door. So I could sort of see whatever was behind that glass and sort of into his entryway. But no further.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so you're now looking through this door, which you're saying is open. Looking into the house in through the front door of the house which you're saying is open, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Well, once I -- once they were in and I looked up, yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And then you said you made a phone call, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you're saying that you called Cassie's burner phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, do you know, only if you know, if Cassie had two different hotel rooms that night?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not know. She had the room at The Cipriani, and then Scott had taken her to Sunset Marquis, so I guess that would make two.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know if her burner phone was at the other hotel room?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not know where the burner phone was, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. But you're telling us you called that burner phone; that's what you're telling us?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're clear as a bell that you called the burner phone, not the other phone, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you are telling us -- so let me ask you a question. Could you tell from your side of the call if Cassie was on a -- on the phone with speaker with Scott Mescudi present with her when you called?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So it was a speakerphone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. Because I could hear like closings and -- more so than I should be able to.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're telling this jury that you 100 percent said the word gun --
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Hold on. To Mr. Mescudi and Ms. Ventura on that phone call, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: No doubt in your mind?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No doubt in my mind.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said gun. You said Combs has a gun, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: 100 percent?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Let's keep it going.
MR. AGNIFILO: 100 percent?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Understood. Are we going to ask that again or can we move on?
MR. AGNIFILO: I think 100 percent is all there is.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: What exactly did you say about the gun?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I said -- I said it very quickly. I said Puff came to my house with a gun, we came to Cudi's house to kill him, he's in there right now. And then I heard: They're in my house?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So you said it quickly?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I said it very quickly. I didn't want him to see me on the phone.
MR. AGNIFILO: So, so but wait a minute. You would absolutely want it to be crystal clear to Cassie and Cudi that Combs had a gun?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm asking about the quickly part.
THE COURT: There's an objection. Just hang on for a second.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yep.
THE COURT: And then I'll rule on the objection. Overruled. Proceed.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when I asked you quite a few times about the gun, you said you said it quickly?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: My question now --
CAPRICORN CLARK: I had to talk fast.
MR. AGNIFILO: My question now is: You would want to make absolutely clear that Combs had a gun, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It wasn't about being clear. I was furious at her now, and I was like what the hell. And I'm letting her know as fast as I can without him knowing I'm on the phone what the hell is going on with me.
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm asking about the gun part.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I said yes. I said he came to my house with a gun and took me to Cudi's house and we're here to kill him, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Now, when you said gun.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: To them, did anyone say anything back? A gun, he has a gun, was there any acknowledgment on their part of the fact that you said gun?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No. I heard: He's in my house?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. But you clearly -- you said gun clearly, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Because that's very important it's very important that you convey that fact, right?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, when you were on -- when you called Cudi and Cassie, were you on a three-way call with Lauren London?
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember telling the government that you were?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was on a call with her earlier before that call.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So let's stop right there for a second. That's not my question. Do you remember telling the government that when you called Cudi and Cassie, you were on a three-way call with Lauren London?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's incorrect.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's incorrect. Okay.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's do this. Let's go to 3509-44, page four just for the witness and the parties. It's maybe halfway, between halfway and a third from the bottom.
MR. AGNIFILO: Here's my question. Do you remember telling anybody, Lauren London, who had Cassie and Cudi on three way the whole time, that Cap was being forced to --
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: That's sustained.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember telling anyone that?
THE COURT: Hold on. Do you want the witness to read what's on the page?
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm sorry, Judge, yes. Read it to yourself first.
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, read it to yourself first and when you're ready, just let us know and we'll take it down.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So my question is: Did you say to anyone that Lauren London was on a three-way call the whole time that you were being taken to this place?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She was on the phone, but not the whole time.
MR. AGNIFILO: Was she on the phone at the same time?
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me just ask the question.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Okay. Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: The same time as Cudi and Cassie?
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you tell anyone that she was?
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. When did you call Lauren London?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Right before I called Cassie.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So let's break this down for a second. I want to understand this. You're in front of the house. Combs has a gun, right? Combs and his gun and Rube somehow get through that door and are now in Cudi's house, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't know at that moment whether Cudi is there or not, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you call Lauren London?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yep.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us why you did that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She was the only one that was sort of in our orbit as it related to me and Cassie. And she was like my sister at the time. And I just wanted somebody to know where I was if -- if he was in that house and that he did get killed. I didn't know -- I just needed somebody to know where I was in case that all went really bad. So I called her for my protection. I just needed somebody to be aware.
MR. AGNIFILO: So tell us exactly what you said to Lauren London?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just like, Lauren, I'm at Cudi's house. Puff brought me up here, and I want to run but I'm scared of the mountain lions.
MR. AGNIFILO: Scared of the mountain lions?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah. It was early. If you're familiar with the Hollywood Hills, there's mountain lions and coyotes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was just scared.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: And I just needed to talk to somebody to get my head on straight. It was so early in the morning.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah. How early was it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: By now it's got to be like 6:15 maybe.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did you wake Lauren London up?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't remember her status.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And how long did you talk to Lauren London?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Seconds, maybe 30 seconds. It was fast. I had to get off the phone because Puff kept popping out to the walkway and in the courtyard.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you didn't think Lauren London could do anything to save Cudi, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It wasn't about saving Cudi.
MR. AGNIFILO: So after you called Lauren London, then how much time passed between calling Lauren London and calling Cassie and Cudi?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Hung up, Puff came back out. That's when he asked me who I was speaking to. So it was just before that if that makes sense, you know. So he came out a couple times. I called Lauren. He went back in. And then maybe, maybe, maybe Lauren was on the phone then. Maybe Lauren was on the phone --
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: -- to hear that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us. Go ahead.
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, I don't -- I'm just like, it's such a long time ago.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah.
CAPRICORN CLARK: And maybe she was on the phone hearing that. I really don't remember. But I do remember making a phone call to Lauren and I do remember making a phone call to Cassie.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when you say maybe she was on the phone, you're saying maybe Lauren London was on the phone with you and Cassie and Cudi?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not Cudi.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So I asked you Cassie was on a speakerphone; you said yes, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when you say maybe Lauren was on the phone, you mean that Lauren maybe was on the phone with you and Cassie, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: With me and Cassie, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's possible, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It's possible.
MR. AGNIFILO: Are you aware that Lauren London and Combs were friends for years after this?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I am.
MR. AGNIFILO: You are, right? They're still friends. I mean, not at the moment, but they were friends until a couple years ago, right?
MS. STEINER: Objection.
THE COURT: Is there a question there?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah. You're aware that Sean Combs and Lauren London were friends for years after this; and you said yes, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So do you have -- now that we've been through this, do you have a clear recollection or not as to whether Lauren London was on the phone call with you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm thinking now she might have been on the phone before, before Puff came out and made me call Cassie back. Now that you say it, I'm like -- because then she couldn't have been on the phone when we called back directly.
MR. AGNIFILO: Why couldn't she have been on the phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Who, Lauren? Because we called Cassie directly. You can't do a three way if you're calling a number directly.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, the government asked you these exact question two days ago, right? Do you remember that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Possibly, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: So many days --
MR. AGNIFILO: The government asked you exactly this question. Was Lauren London on the three-way call with Cassie and -- right? Do you remember being asked that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mm-hmm.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. Did you ever mention calling Lauren London before two days ago?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: When was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Multiple times.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said that the first call you made when you were outside that house was to Lauren London?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I believe so. Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. And you have a clear recollection of calling Lauren London from outside the house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: From outside the house, yes, I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then you have a clear recollection of making a second call, that second call being to Cassie, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you said that -- how long are they inside the house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Which time?
MR. AGNIFILO: So you said that Combs kept coming back outside, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Did -- where was Rube while this was happening?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Inside the house.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you said that Combs kept coming back outside and checking your phone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He checked my phone once.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then at one point he called Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Tell us everything about that phone call when he calls Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He said, bitch, what the fuck is this number. And we got cut off -- he got -- not we. But then he stopped because that's when we heard the car coming up the hill. And I don't even know if he hung up or what happened because that conversation ended once Cudi was coming up the hill.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. But you're saying from your phone, he called Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And said what you just said to the jury to Cassie, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then at that point you see the Porsche coming up the hill?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And is it light out at this point?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was now -- it was glooming before, now it's burning off. So it's about to be sunny.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. What time is it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It's got to be like 6:30, six -- somewhere in there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. 6:30?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Give or take, I don't know exacts.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're saying -- and the car that comes up the hill is what? What car is it?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It's a black Porsche.
MR. AGNIFILO: And who's in the Porsche?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Cudi.
MR. AGNIFILO: And Cassie or no?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No Cassie.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just Cudi?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Just Cudi.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what happens then?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He stops next to us. Well, next to the Escalade. Puff and Rube look at him, see if he's going to get out or what's going happen, and he speeds off and they jump in the car and we chase him.
MR. AGNIFILO: Up the hill?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Up the hill.
MR. AGNIFILO: And are you aware of the fact that when you go up the hill, the only way to kind of get back down to the main roads is to come exactly the way you came?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's not true.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can we mark this for the witness as Defense Exhibit 957.
MR. AGNIFILO: Is this a map of area around 8925 Hollywood Hills Road?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
THE COURT: Your Honor, we offer it.
MS. STEINER: No objection.
THE COURT: Exhibit 957 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 957 received in evidence)
MR. AGNIFILO: So let me make sure that I have this right. So here the red little thing there, that's 8925 Hollywood Hills Road. That's Cudi's house, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, up the hill is -- and going to the bottom left as we look at this map, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Up the hill is going to the bottom left...
MR. AGNIFILO: So when you pulled up -- let me ask you this. When you pulled up in front of the house, you said the driver side door was up against the curb, right? Front of where the door is, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: So the car was facing in the direction of going kind of like to the bottom left, correct, in this map?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. So when the Porsche came up, the Porsche came up and passed the Escalade on the left?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Can you -- can you show me where Mulholland is? I don't have my bearings on this map.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you see Wonderland Park Avenue; does that help you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Skyline helps me. Because what I believe is he turned onto Skyline, and then we went the other way. Skyline is the way out.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. All right. So let me just -- this part, in terms of the map, as you see, if you go up the hill, there are all these different ways you can go, but they all seem to be dead ends; do you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: But they're not.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you know something we don't?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I mean, you can ask somebody that is a technical person, but Skyline, if you go from Hollywood Hills Road to Skyline, you can get yourself back to Mulholland, and then you can get yourself back to Laurel Canyon, and you can go towards Beverly Hills on Mulholland or go back down Laurel Canyon.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Let's get rid of the map.
MR. AGNIFILO: So tell us about the chase. You said it seemed like an entire lifetime, but it was about a minute?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Or less. It wasn't very long.
MR. AGNIFILO: Porsche goes up the hill, right? Escalade goes up the hill chasing the Porsche, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then what happens?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He loses us. We turn away.
MR. AGNIFILO: And when you come back down the hill, you see a police officer?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We hear the sirens and then we see the police officers.
MR. AGNIFILO: Where do you see the car?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Which car?
MR. AGNIFILO: The police car?
CAPRICORN CLARK: They pass -- they're passing us on Laurel Canyon. We made our way back to Laurel Canyon.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now -- and where do you then go in the Escalade?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We go down Sunset.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yeah.
CAPRICORN CLARK: West to the Key Club.
MR. AGNIFILO: And what's the Key Club?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Key Club is like our old school nightclub that is -- it's been there since the 70s, 80s, and it's always just reinvented as something else.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you guys all get out of the car?
MR. AGNIFILO: What happens at the Key Club?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He gets out and has me call Cassie.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you call Cassie from the Key Club, and do you speak to Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Where is Cassie at this point?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The Sunset Marquis.
MR. AGNIFILO: And is she with Cudi? Can you tell from the call?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I can't tell because I asked -- I just say what he says and she says come get me, so there was not that much discussion.
MR. AGNIFILO: And how long was Mr. Combs inside the Key Club?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He didn't go inside the Key Club. We just stopped there to park.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay.
CAPRICORN CLARK: And just to stop. Because service is tricky. Once you are in the Hollywood Hills, Sunset is where you get it back. And if we were to approach his house, we would have lost service again going up towards Benedict Canyon.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you speak to Cassie, and what do you do then?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Then after she says come get me, we hang up and then we go back to Mr. Combs' house.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then you get a different vehicle, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Which vehicle do you get?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It's like Puff's staff vehicle. It's like an old, janky SUV. Nothing special. It's something that he might have driven what he wanted to just go get some burgers by himself.
MR. AGNIFILO: And where did you go to get Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I went to the Sunset Marquis.
MR. AGNIFILO: And was she there alone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She came out to the car. I don't know who she was with, what she was -- you know.
MR. AGNIFILO: She comes out to the car. Where do you go then?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We go to Cudi's house.
MR. AGNIFILO: And is Cudi there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And do you go inside?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. How long are you inside Cudi's house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Two, two and a half hours, something like that.
MR. AGNIFILO: Are there any police there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: There were ADT. There was a security guard. I might have seen a police car leaving when I got there. But the ADT and the Kanye West security guard was in the house, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: You said you might have seen a police car?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Leaving, like, you know, wrapping up based on the times. He wasn't there in the house when I got there, no.
MR. AGNIFILO: Where was the police car when you got back to Cudi's house?
CAPRICORN CLARK: It wasn't at the vehicle. I might have seen a car on the Canyon. A police car on the Canyon, but it was not lit up or anything.
MR. AGNIFILO: Okay. You didn't try to stop the police car and just say I've just been kidnapped, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You get back to Cudi's house, and by this point the police have already been to Cudi's house; do you understand that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know what -- I don't know what's going on as I've been at Puff's house, and then I went to get Cassie. So I don't really know the reality of what's going on at Cudi's house, sir.
(Continued on next page)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. You're in Cudi's house and then you leave Cudi's house and go where?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We go back to Puff's house.
MR. AGNIFILO: You and Cassie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you go inside the house, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: We go into the entryway.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So it's you and Cassie are inside Puff's house, Mr. Combs' house, at this point?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And you're saying that you then witness Mr. Combs kicking Cassie many, many times, not just inside the house, but outside the house, and even by the street where she's in fetal position?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're sure about this, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And so you're absolutely positive that you saw Mr. Combs kicking Cassie and Cassie was in fetal position in the street?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: No doubt in your mind?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No doubt.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, at one point you get a call from a fire investigator, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: When was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That was after I was fired.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So it's in the summer?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Summer of 2012?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And the fire investigator wanted to talk to you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: About what happened at Kid Cudi's car, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you didn't want to speak to the fire investigator?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did not want to be involved with any of this any longer.
MR. AGNIFILO: So did you tell that to the fire investigator?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I hung up the phone, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: So when a fire investigator is trying to get in touch with you to solve a crime, that's what you understood he was doing?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: He's trying to solve an arson?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you don't speak to the fire investigator?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do not.
MR. AGNIFILO: You don't give the fire investigator the courtesy of saying I would rather not speak to you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You just hang up the phone on him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you never call him back?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're never interviewed by the fire investigate?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you're never interviewed by police?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, you said that you got terminated in the summer of 2012, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Where were you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was on vacation.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Where were you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: South of France, Italy.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who did you tell you were going?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Harve Pierre.
MR. AGNIFILO: You told him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you got fired anyway?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Even though you told him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who were you with?
CAPRICORN CLARK: On my vacation?
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Rihanna.
MR. AGNIFILO: You were upset about being fired, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And you wanted to continue to work with Mr. Combs and the company, correct? You didn't want to be fired?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wanted to continue my career, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Now, can we show the witness Exhibit 952. This is e-mail correspondence between you and another person at Bad Boy. Do you see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: I think you mentioned this person on direct examination, Love -- how do you say the last name?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I think it's Whelchel.
MR. AGNIFILO: Love Whelchel. And this is an e-mail correspondence with that person?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Your Honor, we offer it?
MS. STEINER: No objection.
THE COURT: Exhibit 952 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 952 received in evidence)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. All right. Let's take a look at this. We'll pull it up. On the bottom, we see an e-mail from that BlackBerry.net address of yours, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um-hmm, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And it writes, record, my boss is Sean Combs and by default, Harve Pierre, are upset I went on vacation and are being petty as usual whenever I have happiness in my life. I have landed here by force. They made me fly straight from my vacation to New York to tell me how they are stripping me of my work setup/living situation that has been standing for the past two years. I will tape-record the meeting for any possible legal purposes needed in future. I will also document this entire process. I am done being treated this way. It is beyond reasonable. Dear lord, make them stop. That's what you write, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then Love Whelchel writes you back, Hi, Capricorn. Glad you made it in safely. Let's plan on meeting at 12 p.m. on Monday. Best regards, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And soon after that, you were terminated, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And what did you do after being terminated? Did you get another job?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Where did you work?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was hired by Chris Lighty to be 50-cent's day-to-day manager at Primary Wave.
MR. AGNIFILO: Even years later you asked Mr. Combs to forgive you, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Perhaps. I wanted my life back.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's fine. Let's look at Exhibit 965. All right. This is an e-mail from you to Mr. Combs, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's dated September 30, 2014, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: I ask that it be admitted, Judge.
MS. STEINER: No objection.
THE COURT: All right. This will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 965 received in evidence)
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Could we just blow up. There we go.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. So there's an e-mail on the bottom here, September 29, 2014. You see that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: It's from you to Mr. Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And it's from 2014, so this is now over two years since you had not been working with him, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Are you OK? Is your mom OK? Hope all is well. XX. Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then he writes you back, Yes, we're great. How are you? Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Then you write him back, Hopefully you'll forgive me soon. It's been long enough. I feel like you forgave everyone but me. Anyways, be well. XX. Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Can we look at 963. It's an e-mail from yourself to Sean Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: January 5, 2015. So it's now 2015, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: We offer it, your Honor.
MS. STEINER: No objection.
THE COURT: 963 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 963 received in evidence)
MR. AGNIFILO: Sending you blessings and love for a new year. Hope I finally see you this year. XX. Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's look at 962. Next month, it's now February 28. It's an e-mail from yourself to Mr. Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: And we're just -- We offer it, your Honor.
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, can I confer with defense briefly?
THE COURT: Yes, you may.
MS. STEINER: Thank you.
(Counsel confer)
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, rather than offering it, I'm just going to read a part to the witness, if that's OK.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. STEINER: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: Proceed.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: You write to Mr. Combs on February 28, 2015, Hope you are well. Your grace period to be mad at me is long -- has long exceeded the agreed upon time, man. LOL. You write that, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. We can take that down. 961. OK. This is from you to Mr. Combs, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Looks like it, yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: Just give me one second. We offer it, your Honor.
MS. STEINER: One moment, your Honor. No objection.
THE COURT: What number is this?
MR. AGNIFILO: It is 961.
THE COURT: All right. 961 will be admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 961 received in evidence)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Can you do me a favor and just read the second paragraph there. Out loud, if you could.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's OK.
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, no. I'm -- I haven't seen these e-mails in such a long time.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's OK.
CAPRICORN CLARK: My hope for this year is you make good on your promise to get other things and actually be my friend again. Hopefully retrospect has taught you that I just minded my own business and grown people did what they wanted to ... she was clearly never my real friend cause she didn't clarify that to you. So many of your other so-called friends knew things too and you still fuck with them. She just musta wanted me, in particular, gone. I realized that later.
MR. AGNIFILO: Thank you. I'm sorry. We can take this down. Did you think that Cassie wanted you gone?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Pardon me.
MR. AGNIFILO: Take your time. Take your time. Just take a second. Take as much time as you need.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: There's nothing to be sorry about.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I felt -- again, I told you, this is so complicated for me. I felt that I was somewhat of a protector for Puff. And if you could get me away from him, he wouldn't have someone looking after his back that actually was really looking out for him, so -- and that e-mail is me pleading, like, dude, let it go. Sorry.
MR. AGNIFILO: That's all right. That's OK. Take all the time you need. There's no rush.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I don't know. I felt a little bit, um, in retrospect, looking at how everything happened, I was the only one that was gone. She was still there and things were getting worse. A lot of the things that I kind of worked really hard to keep on track, to keep professionalism and business as the goal. So that was how I felt in retrospect.
MR. AGNIFILO: So you thought you could protect him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not protect him. My job was to keep it professional and to keep -- move the ball toward the goal, just to be successful and to inspire people so they know, if they can do this, they can attempt to be great.
(Pause)
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, is it OK if we go on?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Don't be sorry, please. Mr. Agnifilo.
MR. AGNIFILO: You're OK.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I apologize for my language today.
THE COURT: Do not apologize. Mr. Agnifilo, when you're ready.
MR. AGNIFILO: Yes, yes.
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: You ended up coming back and working with him again, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So tell me if this is right. From your perspective, he heard you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Um, I don't think that that was the case. I think that he did what Cassie wanted and Cassie wanted me back.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. And can I ask you a question?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Did that hurt, that he would only take you back because that's what Cassie wanted?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, absolutely. This is my whole life and their shenanigans. I have no parents. My son has autism. He's nonverbal. My stakes are higher, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: I understand, and I'm sorry to keep asking questions. Do you need a minute?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No. I want to try to make it through.
THE COURT: How much time, Mr. Agnifilo, do you have left?
MR. AGNIFILO: Can I talk to the government for a second? I mean...
THE COURT: We can have a brief sidebar?
MR. AGNIFILO: Let's have a sidebar.
THE COURT: All right.
(Continued on next page)
(At the sidebar)
MR. AGNIFILO: I mean, I do have more. I don't want -- I would love to get her off the stand. I don't --
THE COURT: I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to have the witness have to come back tomorrow.
MR. AGNIFILO: I know.
THE COURT: I think the jury will understand if we go a little bit longer.
THE COURT: I was just asking so I understand, to do that analysis.
MR. AGNIFILO: Let me cut some stuff that I can cut.
THE COURT: Do what you need to do. I don't think it's a good idea for the witness to go home and come back. We will stick around and try to get this done.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK, Judge. Thank you, Judge.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm going to only ask you a few more minutes of questions. OK?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Thank you.
MR. AGNIFILO: And then we're going to get you out today.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Thank you, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: No, it's OK.
(Counsel confer)
MR. AGNIFILO: We'll do this very, very fast. You did a lot of great work with Cassie in 2016 and 2017, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, I think so.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You worked really hard, you had good results, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I believe so.
MR. AGNIFILO: Cassie was -- you thought that she had challenges with addiction, is that fair to say?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And that really affected her performance, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Made it very difficult, at times, for her to see things through in terms of shoots and music, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: But through it all, you worked very hard despite all this, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. I think you said you guys made a movie?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: A short film?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Real quick, just tell the jury about that.
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was called Love or Lose Her.
MR. AGNIFILO: Love or Lose Her?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Cassie video, movie, little mini movie.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Real quickly, I'll have you look at Defense Exhibit 938, just for you to see. All right. Can we make it just a little bit bigger. I'm going to ask you just a couple questions.
CAPRICORN CLARK: OK, sir. I mean -- OK, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Read it over, and then I'll just ask you the questions.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. So you're no longer working for Mr. Combs in November of 2018, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. But, in November of 2018, you're still communicating with him and you're still asking him to forgive you, in essence, is that fair to say?
CAPRICORN CLARK: In essence.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. Great. Let's take this down. Do you remember asking him for a reference letter in June of 2021?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And he gave it to you, right?
MR. AGNIFILO: He didn't?
CAPRICORN CLARK: No, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Are you sure? Are you sure? Let's look at 950. Just look at it real quickly.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yeah, I wrote this.
MR. AGNIFILO: You wrote it, but, I mean, the name on the bottom is Sean Diddy Combs, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: We offer it, your Honor. A. This is from 2012 --
MR. AGNIFILO: Hold on. Then we have to look at Exhibit 947. Take this down and look at 947.
MR. AGNIFILO: This is from 2021, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: This is from 2021, this text, right.
MR. AGNIFILO: June 21, 2021. Am I right that you write, the bottom part here, you're asking for a recommendation letter from Mr. Combs for yourself, correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: You're saying that's not the letter that I just showed you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: This is not the letter that you just showed me. That was the recommendation -- what you just showed me was the recommendation that I had to write with the settlement.
CAPRICORN CLARK: This is what I was -- I needed his help in June of 2021, so I could take care of my son.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. And so you reached out to him consistently, right, and -- I'm sorry -- through the year 2018, '19, '20, '21, '22, you wanted him to forgive you, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wanted my life back, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: I understand. And your life, when you say, I want my life back, you wanted to work with him again?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wanted to work with the music industry and my core competency.
MR. AGNIFILO: I understand. And that's why when we all met in April of 2024, just a little over a year ago, you wanted to come back and be his chief of staff, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Not necessarily.
MR. AGNIFILO: Well, not necessarily. Isn't that what you asked me?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's what we talked about. I didn't ask you, but we did discuss it. Yes, we definitely did discuss it.
MR. AGNIFILO: Who brought it up, me or you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. Give me one second.
(Counsel confer)
MR. AGNIFILO: I have nothing else. Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. Ms. Steiner.
MS. STEINER: Yes, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. STEINER:
MS. STEINER: Good afternoon, Ms. Clark.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Hi, Ms. Steiner.
MS. STEINER: You were just asked a moment ago by Mr. Agnifilo about a recommendation that you wrote and provided to Mr. Combs. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MS. STEINER: And why did you provide that to Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Because it was a stipulation in the settlement agreement in 2012.
MS. STEINER: And what was the stipulation in the agreement?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That he would, um, give me a positive recommendation to get a job.
MS. STEINER: And as part of that agreement, what were he and you also required to do?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Non-disparagement, mutual non-disparagement.
MS. STEINER: And as part of that agreement -- and I believe the door was opened on this, your Honor --
THE COURT: You can ask the question and then we'll see if there is an objection.
MS. STEINER: Yes, your Honor.
MS. STEINER: As part of that agreement, how much was Mr. Combs -- how much, if anything, was Mr. Combs required to pay you?
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection.
THE COURT: How is the door opened, just briefly?
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, can we do it at the sidebar, Judge?
THE COURT: All right. Sidebar.
(Continued on next page)
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: How was the door opened?
MS. STEINER: Your Honor, on cross-examination, Mr. Agnifilo asked about one of the key provisions of the termination agreement, which was that Mr. Combs had to provide a recommendation for Ms. Clark. The recommendation letter that he put up is one that was provided by Ms. Clark to Mr. Combs in connection with that termination agreement and in connection with those settlement negotiations.
THE COURT: Help me.
MS. STEINER: Yes.
THE COURT: Maybe I misheard you. Mr. Agnifilo put up the recommendation letter --
MS. STEINER: Correct.
THE COURT: -- thinking it was from 2021. Did he mention the settlement agreement, open the line of inquiry into that?
MS. STEINER: The witness talked about the fact that this was part of the settlement agreement.
THE COURT: I don't think that Mr. Agnifilo is opening the door. She was shutting the door on the suggestion that that letter was from 2021. So if that's the only hook to opening the door on the 2012 settlement agreement terms, then no. You did, I do believe that it was opened, to the extent of confirming that the letter of recommendation was, in fact, from 2012 in connection with the settlement agreement, and there was to objection to that line of questioning. But further than that, unless I'm missing something, I don't see --
MS. STEINER: I think I didn't fully make our record previously about the significance of this document. This document, the terms of the settlement agreement were negotiated just a few months after the kidnapping. And so I think there is a very significant probative value to the fact that Mr. Combs paid half a million dollars to her so close in time to that incident, and given also what the witness has stated.
THE COURT: No, we're not opening that. The objection is sustained.
MS. STEINER: OK.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
THE COURT: Ms. Steiner, you may proceed.
MS. STEINER: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MS. STEINER:
MS. STEINER: Ms. Clark, you testified a minute ago that you were supposed to receive a recommendation letter, is that correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: Did Mr. Combs provide you with a recommendation letter?
MS. STEINER: And after you left his employment in 2012, you testified on cross-examination that you were offered a job with Chris Lighty, is that correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: What happened to that job?
CAPRICORN CLARK: He died a day before I was signing my contract.
MS. STEINER: Did you start that position?
MS. STEINER: Did you continue to seek employment?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MS. STEINER: And tell us about that process?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I made a couple calls. I got a couple calls. Jimmy Iovine called me.
MS. STEINER: Who is that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Chairman of Interscope Records. And he told me to come by and talk about job opportunities. When I got there, himself and Larry Jackson, who was senior vice president of Interscope at the time, it wasn't about job opportunities. They were there to tell me to leave Puff alone and that this wasn't going to end well for me.
MR. AGNIFILO: I object to all this, Judge.
MS. STEINER: This is for the state of mind of the witness, your Honor.
THE COURT: The question was: Who is that? The objection is sustained. The jury should disregard everything except the first sentence of the witness's answer, which was that Mr. Iovine was the chairman of Interscope Records. Ms. Steiner, you can ask your next question.
MS. STEINER: Thank you.
BY MS. STEINER:
MS. STEINER: Did you have a meeting with Mr. Iovine?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MS. STEINER: What was the outcome of that meeting?
CAPRICORN CLARK: The outcome of that meeting was that -- well, no job, but it was a warning.
MS. STEINER: What was the warning?
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection, Judge.
CAPRICORN CLARK: He told me --
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection, Judge.
THE COURT: Hold on. That's sustained.
MS. STEINER: Ms. Clark, did you continue to seek employment through CAA?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MS. STEINER: What's CAA?
CAPRICORN CLARK: CAA is a talent agency.
MS. STEINER: And what happened when you went to seek employment at CAA?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mr. Combs and Andre Harrell followed me around CAA.
MS. STEINER: Who is Andre Harrell?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Andre Harrell was a music industry executive and, like, everybody's godfather, pretty groovy guy, ran Uptown Records back in the day and was a confidante, like a father to Puff, Mr. Combs.
MS. STEINER: Is your testimony that he and Mr. Combs showed up when you were looking for employment?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And what effect did that have on you?
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection, Judge.
THE COURT: Hold on. That question needs to be rephrased.
MS. STEINER: Of course, your Honor.
MS. STEINER: Did you have an understanding about why they were there?
CAPRICORN CLARK: To talk me out of pursuing my legal efforts.
MS. STEINER: After this process of continuing to seek employment -- And this is 2012, is that right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: How long were you looking for work?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was looking for work until I, pretty much, got pregnant.
MS. STEINER: In what year was that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: 2015.
MS. STEINER: Were you able to obtain work?
MS. STEINER: Why not?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was blacklisted.
MR. AGNIFILO: Object to the form of the question. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Sustained. The jury should disregard the witness's last answer.
MS. STEINER: Ms. Clark, on direct examination and cross-examination, you testified that in 2012, Mr. Combs kidnapped you, is that correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And that he showed up to your house with a gun, is that correct?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And that --
MR. AGNIFILO: Objection. It's all leading, Judge.
MS. STEINER: And yet --
THE COURT: Hold on. Hold on. There's an objection. Ms. Steiner, are you just repeating questions from direct? Let's get a question.
MS. STEINER: I can rephrase, your Honor, or turn to a new question.
MS. STEINER: And after all this happened, you left your work; you were fired, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And were you able to get steady employment in the entertainment industry after you left?
MS. STEINER: So where did you turn to find work?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I started consulting.
MS. STEINER: Did you return to work for Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I did.
MS. STEINER: Why did you do that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I wanted to take the opportunity so that other people could see that I was a valuable person and that I wasn't disposable.
MS. STEINER: Why did you need Mr. Combs' approval for that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: At this level of business, he hold all the power as it related to me.
MS. STEINER: You were also asked many questions on cross-examination about a meeting with defense counsel fairly recently in April 2024. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: What do you understand the purpose of that meeting to be?
CAPRICORN CLARK: For me, it was for me to get my life back.
MS. STEINER: What do you mean when you say to get your life back?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I've been fighting since 2012 to just be able to not have to deal with drama. I just want to work and provide for my son.
MS. STEINER: And you testified that you discussed employment in that meeting, is that right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: Employment with Mr. Combs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And that you offered to assist with his business, is that right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. It was discussed. I didn't offer. It was a topic.
MS. STEINER: It was discussed?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: Why were you willing to engage in that discussion after everything that had happened to you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Initially, when I reached out, we initially reached out in December of 2023. I was upset and I wanted to talk to him because I was very disturbed by Cassie's document. And I was going to be aggressive with him, because I was maxed out on dealing with this. She --
MS. STEINER: Just to stop you for a minute. It sounds like you were upset from the document. What about it made you --
MR. AGNIFILO: I'm going to object to this, Judge.
THE COURT: Let's take a few steps back, Ms. Steiner.
MS. STEINER: OK.
THE COURT: I think you asked a question. I don't know that you got an answer that was responsive. So, Ms. Clark, you're almost done. That's the good news.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Just listen to the questions from Ms. Steiner, and then answer them to the best of your ability, and then we'll keep going Ms. Steiner can ask further followup. Ms. Steiner, let's get a fresh question.
MS. STEINER: Yes. I'm going to move on shortly.
BY MS. STEINER:
MS. STEINER: Just in this meeting itself, Ms. Clark, when you actually got to the meeting with the attorneys, why were you willing to have a discussion about potential employment with Mr. Combs.
CAPRICORN CLARK: It was a better strategy, given that he had his house just raided and he was under criminal investigation, for him to see me as not a threat.
MS. STEINER: Did you think that you would not be a threat if you asked for employment?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I felt like, given what I was -- what I had said directly to him and what I had said publicly, it was obviously not anything pleasant. Um, did --
MS. STEINER: Let me stop you there.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, this is all entirely irrelevant and is going to require a great deal of time to put back together.
THE COURT: Is that an objection?
MR. AGNIFILO: It's an objection.
THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
BY MS. STEINER:
MS. STEINER: I just have a couple more questions for you, Ms. Clark. You were asked on cross-examination many questions about the December 2011 kidnapping. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: OK. And you were asked why you went with Mr. Combs. Do you remember that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: At each of the steps from getting to your apartment to getting to Mr. Cudi's apartment, was Mr. Combs carrying a gun?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And was that gun visible to you?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And what was -- what, if any, concern did you have if you did not go with him?
CAPRICORN CLARK: That I would be hurt.
MS. STEINER: You were also asked why you didn't report this incident to the police, including when they were driving right past you. Why did you not report it to the police?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Because he told me that if the police found out it was him, we would all be hurt.
MS. STEINER: And, finally, Ms. Clark, I just want to ask you a couple questions about your employment for Mr. Combs working with Ms. Ventura in 2016. You were asked about Mr. Combs' involvement in her career at that time. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: And you were asked several questions about his support for her. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MS. STEINER: You said, at a certain point, it fell away. What did you mean by that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: When he would be upset and they would fight, it would be, like, you know, show is over, all bets are over, but it would go back to support. So their fighting led to fluctual -- no, you're not doing that video. OK, you're doing that video. No, you're not doing that photo shoot. OK, you're doing the photo shoot.
MS. STEINER: Just to clarify --
CAPRICORN CLARK: That's what I mean.
MS. STEINER: -- would he withdraw support when they were fighting?
CAPRICORN CLARK: When they were fighting.
MS. STEINER: OK. And you also had testified on direct a bit and asked about it on cross, Mr. Combs' level of involvement in Ms. Ventura's career and the types of things that would have required his approval. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do.
MS. STEINER: And you were shown, for example, on cross-examination a few images of Ms. Ventura, I believe, one in particular. Do you recall that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I do.
MS. STEINER: Who was required to approve any of Ms. Ventura's looks for appearances?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mr. Combs.
MS. STEINER: And who was required to approve each of Ms. Ventura's songs?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mr. Combs.
MS. STEINER: And who was required to approve any event that Ms. Ventura went to?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Mr. Combs.
MS. STEINER: No further questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Agnifilo.
MR. AGNIFILO: Very, very fast. I think I can do this more quickly if I show the witness Defense Exhibit 941.
THE COURT: Approach.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. AGNIFILO:
MR. AGNIFILO: Hi. I'm just going to ask the witness to read to yourself. Read to yourself, the highlighted area. I'm sorry. It's 941.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. AGNIFILO: You can put it up for the parties.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: My question is, that's from 2021, am I right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You were working at the time, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. But you were asking Mr. Combs to come back and work with him, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Does it say that? Hold on. I only read the highlighted.
CAPRICORN CLARK: I only read the highlighted or --
MR. AGNIFILO: It's all right.
THE COURT: Ms. Clark, take your time.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Read the whole thing?
THE COURT: Read through. Read through the text exchange.
MR. AGNIFILO: My only question is: Were you working at that time, in May of 2021? Were you working? That's my only question.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: OK. You were. What were you doing for a living?
CAPRICORN CLARK: I was working as a -- I was a strategy consultant.
MR. AGNIFILO: All right. The prosecutor asked you a bunch of questions about this meeting of April of last year?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. AGNIFILO: Do you remember saying at the meeting that, that Cassie said to you, that if she -- you told Cassie, you have to -- you should move away from him and date other people, right?
CAPRICORN CLARK: Yes. Yes.
MR. AGNIFILO: And she said to you that Jay-Z was taken, who would she date?
CAPRICORN CLARK: True.
MR. AGNIFILO: She said that?
CAPRICORN CLARK: She did.
MR. AGNIFILO: One second. Nothing else. Thanks, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you very much.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Thank you, Judge. I appreciate you. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Thank you.
CAPRICORN CLARK: Thank you so much. I can go?
THE COURT: You can go.
(Witness excused)
THE COURT: All right. Members of the jury, thank you so much. I know that we're ending later than usual, and I do appreciate your patience. We'll be back here to start at 9:00, so please try to be here at 8:45. Again, don't speak to each other about the case. Do not do any research. Don't look up anything about the case. Do not reach out to anyone, including the attorneys, either directly or through the internet, about the case. We'll see you tomorrow. All rise.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Ms. Comey, what is the order for tomorrow?
MS. COMEY: Ms. Slavik.
MS. SLAVIK: Your Honor, we'll begin with LAPD officer Christopher Ignacio. Then we'll move to LAFD Arson Investigator, Lance Jiminez. The next witness we expect to call is Deonte Nash. Followed by Mia.
THE COURT: OK. Do we expect, based on the anticipated length of direct examination, to get to those four witnesses tomorrow?
MS. SLAVIK: I think we should, your Honor.
THE COURT: You can only speak for that piece.
MS. SLAVIK: Of course. Without being able to anticipate the length of cross, I do think we should be able to get to all four witnesses.
THE COURT: Any further issues that the government wishes to raise at this time?
MS. SLAVIK: Not at this moment.
THE COURT: Mr. Agnifilo.
MR. AGNIFILO: Nothing from us. Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. We'll see everyone here likely, well, we'll see everyone here at 8:30. I'm sure there will be issues.
MR. AGNIFILO: Your Honor, I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm so sorry. Did we ever hear anything about the VTC? I only ask --
THE COURT: Thank you for reminding me.
THE COURT: The question is, have you heard anything from the Bureau of Prisons. I'll ask the government the same question. The letter was submitted. I inquired and sent your letter to BOP counsel and the people who administer things on that end. There are some logistical difficulties in terms of timing, especially in the evenings, for VTC access. The question is, what is the issue and how can we help resolve it? Because I think there may be a communication disconnect between the defense and the Bureau of Prisons. I think, from their perspective, there are allowances being made in terms of both time for calls and then the VTC, and so they, perhaps, do not understand the particular issues and the challenges that you're facing. And I think if they had a better understanding of that, they may be able to address some of those. To give you an example, in terms of call minutes, I think it was their understanding that calls, legal calls were not held to the minute total. So I think there's a lack of understanding as to what exactly is being requested. And then if the request were clearer, there may be something that they can do. So that is what I've heard so far, and I'm happy to -- look, I want to make sure that the defense has adequate time to prepare and that Mr. Combs has the ability to speak with his team and participate fully in his defense. I need to bridge that communication divide, and I think you're the person that can help me do that. That's what I've heard as for now. So what can you tell me now, or is there anything that you can help me with?
MR. AGNIFILO: I'll turn it over to Ms. Geragos, who is better versed in these matters.
MS. GERAGOS: Thank you, your Honor. I think, first, with respect to VTC, we have been communicating with the Bureau of Prisons' legal office at MDC in order to try to get longer VTC time, because even with the shortened day, ending at around 3:00 to 330, Mr. Combs does not get processed and into the facility until around 5:00, and the VTC time for us for Mr. Combs has cuts off around 5:00, 5:30. So we're not able to meet with him after court through VTC. So we've been trying to figure out creative ways with MDC legal to make that happen. But neither of us -- we had proposed something. MDC legal said it's not possible. What our letter addressed last week was, perhaps, giving Mr. Combs more phone minutes. Those wouldn't be legal call phone minutes, because legal call phone minutes have to happen with MDC legal is there, so that would also cut off around 5:30. So phone minutes, they are segregated -- the filter team segregates those calls that Mr. Combs has with his attorneys on his recorded line, but because he maxes out during these months at 300 minutes a month, that doesn't allow for many phone minutes for him to call us. So that was our backup option. So we ask --
THE COURT: You asked -- just so I'm understanding it, so I can speak to BOP about this, because of the filtering, you're not concerned about having the calls on this other line, you just need more minutes? And I think what they did not understand is that connection, that you were trying to make up for the lack of VTC time by, perhaps, increasing the number of minutes on the nonlegal line.
MS. GERAGOS: I think VTC is obviously preferable. We want that for a legal call. However, while we're trying to figure out a creative solution for this, we would ask for more phone minutes on his monitored line, understanding the government is not listening because they are filtering it out.
THE COURT: Let me work on that piece of it. As to the VTC, I think it's more complicated because of the staffing that is just unavailable and some of the arrangements behind the screens in terms of union issues and other things that make it hard for them to accommodate VTC time in the evenings.
MS. GERAGOS: That's what I understand as well. So what we may be asking the court to do is allow him more SCIF time, perhaps here, until later in the day, and order that the marshals not take him until later. We are really trying to figure that out. We understand that the issue there is staffing. That's why it gets cut off at 5:30 because that's when the MDC legal staff leaves.
THE COURT: For the time being, let me see if I can work on the minutes issue. If there is anything further you can figure out on the VTC access and, perhaps, any accommodations we can make in the courthouse, let me know.
MS. GERAGOS: OK. Thank you.
THE COURT: From the government's side, I don't know if you have heard anything about this or have any guidance based on your experience that might be helpful here.
MS. JOHNSON: Your Honor, at the court's request, we did speak to the Bureau of Prisons. And I think we heard the same thing that the court and Ms. Geragos has heard about the difficulties with the VTC and the staffing -- pardon me -- the staffing issues. We didn't speak directly about the minutes because I think I didn't quite understand Ms. Geragos' request. But if there is anything you would like us to follow up on there, we're happy to do so.
THE COURT: I think that's probably -- I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's probably the easier of the various options. So we'll work on that. If there is anything further that I can use help with, I'll let you know. If there is anything that you find out, please let me know.
MS. JOHNSON: Of course.
THE COURT: With that, we'll see everybody tomorrow at 8:30.
(Adjourned to May 28, 2025, at 8:30 a.m.)